IW 206: Interview Debra Russell Part 2: Oh Canada - We've Learned So Much and Have So Much to Learn

I knew that! Oh, wait, what?!

Sometimes we forget what it is we had long after we lost it. It takes others to help us see what - could be. Debra Russell describes the evolution of the sign language profession in Canada and how her journey with WASLI taught her about the strengths of our colleagues around the world. Debra and I chat about so much more in this episode and the next to come.

Transcript

IW 206: Interview Debra Russell Part 2: Oh Canada - We've Learned So Much and Have So Much to Learn

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now, the quote of the day by author Richelle E. Goodrich.

00:00:41 Tim

“It may take 15, 20, 30 years to reach the year that changes your life. Have faith, be patient, because the lessons learned during those trying years will prepare you for the year that changes everything.”

00:00:59 Tim

Persistence, consistency, persevering, all of those ideas of continuing to do what's right, continuing to look at problems, at barriers, things that just need to be changed, constantly working on them, but from a perspective that's positive, seeing the strengths, the skills, the knowledge, the fortitude that you have to make change, to find the strength in others.

00:01:32 Tim

Today we continue the conversation with Debra Russell, Canadian ASL/English interpreter, and so much more.

00:01:40 Tim

We learn more about the profession in Canada and her time with WASLI and what that has taught her and all of us.

00:01:49 Tim

So, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:56 Tim

Let's talk in general about the interpreting field in Canada to give listeners a little bit of background on how it works there.

00:02:04 Tim

You mentioned AVLIC, A-V-L-I-C.

00:02:09 Tim

When was it founded and how does it work with certification testing and so forth?

00:02:19 Debra

So, we say that our founding meeting was in the fall of 1979 in Winnipeg.

00:02:25 Debra

And at that point, there were a couple of provincial, I mean, Canada is a very large country and we have provinces.

00:02:33 Debra

And so, there were some provincial organizations of interpreters that were already founded that were loosely affiliated with RID, but it was in Winnipeg.

00:02:45 Debra

And interesting enough, Tim, that meeting came about because of funding and encouragement from the Canadian Association of the Deaf and the Canadian Cultural Society of the Deaf who are our two National organizations representing Deaf people. [Tim: hmm]

00:03:00 Debra

And so, it was based on their nudging that pushed the leaders of our organization to say it's time now for a National organization to represent Canadian interpreters.

00:03:10 Debra

So, Winnipeg, 1979 was that.

00:03:13 Debra

My mentor took me along to that conference.

00:03:16 Debra

I don't think I realized in that moment that's what was gonna happen, but it is what happened. [Tim: hmm]

00:03:22 Debra

That was the National organization.

00:03:24 Debra

And I was already a member of our provincial association.

00:03:27 Debra

I'd been a founding member of that as well with that same mentor.

00:03:31 Debra

So founded then, and it has evolved into a National organization that has a new name now, which is really an old name.

00:03:40 Debra

So, our original name was AVLIC, the Association of Visual Language Interpreters of Canada.

00:03:48 Debra

And many people have said to me over the years, “Where on earth did you find visual language? [Tim chuckling]

00:03:53 Debra

What were you thinking?”

00:03:55 Debra

And it was a matter of great debate in our early years because we didn't want to be the Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf in Canada. [Tim chuckles]

00:04:05 Debra

And we had multiple linguistic communities to think about.

00:04:09 Debra

So, we had the French and the LSQ community.

00:04:12 Debra

And we also had at that time, 1979, there were still Deaf community members who used what we called oral interpreters. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:04:22 Debra

And so, the visual language was an attempt, I think, to try and be respectful of all of those without coming up with an association of oral, LSQ, ASL, visual interpreter, something like that. [Tim: yeah]

00:04:36 Debra

But at the time they had put, we had put forward a name that would be closer to the Canadian Association of Sign Language Interpreters.

00:04:43 Debra

And it didn't fly with those who were providing oral interpreting.

00:04:47 Debra

And so, it is now our name again.

00:04:50 Debra

CASLI is the new name after a few years. [Tim: yeah]

00:04:54 Debra

But yes, that was our history.

00:04:57 Debra

And founded with an attempt to be a bilingual organization as well too, to be able to represent the interests of LSQ and French interpreters. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:05:08 Debra

And I would say from the earliest stages, we had representation and leadership from Quebec.

00:05:14 Debra

And over the years, that relationship changed into almost a sister organization.

00:05:20 Debra

And similar to what we were talking about earlier in that every community is at a different stage of development.

00:05:25 Debra

And our French colleagues were at a different stage of development.

00:05:29 Debra

And it made the most sense for two organizations that were struggling to cover the costs of translation, to make sure that everything was accessible in multiple languages.

00:05:41 Debra

And in the end, I think it was a painful decision for us. [Tim: hmm]

00:05:46 Debra

And yet functioning as sister organizations, I think has worked well.

00:05:50 Debra

And I think those early roots of CAD and CCSD being in there were really helpful as well too, because it tightened, you know, in days that we didn't talk about having formal Memos of Understanding with Deaf communities.

00:06:04 Debra

We just had an understanding and a relationship with the Deaf.

00:06:07 Debra

We didn't need anything on paper. [Tim: yeah]

00:06:10 Debra

And we all grew up together.

00:06:12 Debra

So when I think about my own sort of volunteer service that came provincially, then went Nationally, it went interNationally, but all along were Deaf leaders who were doing the same thing that I was doing and we were all friends.

00:06:27 Debra

So, it was easy to, I think, build an organization or a culture that involved regular meetings between the presidents of those three organizations, regular communication, regular engagement.

00:06:42 Debra

So I liked those pieces of our history, and I worry that, again, each iteration of history looks different and we may be losing [Tim: hmm] some of those pieces in a big way.

00:06:55 Tim

Yeah.

00:06:56 Tim

Did you work on the testing or evaluations [Debra: Mm-hmm] within all of these organizations or was it just one mainly?

00:07:06 Tim

How did it work?

00:07:07 Debra

Yes, we created a structure that required dual affiliation.

00:07:11 Debra

So, if there was a provincial chapter, for example, in British Columbia, then they affiliated with National. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:07:18 Debra

And so, people would be active interpreter members in both provincial and National.

00:07:24 Debra

And it was determined that Nationally would be responsible for a certification exam.

00:07:29 Debra

And once again, we had federal funding for that, but CAD and CCSD, the two Deaf organizations were very much at the table in designing that certification system.

00:07:43 Debra

And one of the conscious choices that we made, I think based on our experience with American colleagues as well too, is that we chose not to have a certification system that had a transliterating exams. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:07:56 Debra

So we only had an exam that was for ASL/English interpreters.

00:08:01 Debra

We didn't have an exam that was created for LSQ at that point.

00:08:06 Debra

And we chose to do something that probably without even understanding it was more geared to conference level interpreting and as opposed to entry level.

00:08:17 Debra

So, it had two interactive segments and then two platform sorts of presentations and a tough exam. [Tim: yeah]

00:08:26 Debra

And so, I was president of AVLIC when it was first rolled out.

00:08:32 Debra

And many people were disappointed when they got their results [Tim: yeah] in that the standard was not what they had hoped for.

00:08:41 Debra

The standard was what the Deaf community hoped for. [Tim chuckles]

00:08:44 Debra

This one was not what interpreters hoped for. [Tim: yeah]

00:08:47 Debra

And so I would say it was a painful process of unrolling that certification because people then realized that it wasn't necessarily like the exam that they could take across the border and that it wasn't going to certify you if you only could transliterate that you had to be able to use American Sign Language in the ways that it was designed for.

00:09:13 Debra

So…

00:09:14 Debra

That, uh, I think that test has been retired now, probably since 2018, 2019. [Tim: hmm]

00:09:21 Debra

And my understanding is that perhaps they're in conversation about how to develop the next certification exams and does it need to be leveled?

00:09:30 Debra

And so, does it need to be a community-based exam and then perhaps a conference level exam. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:09:36 Debra

So, I'll be curious to see how that goes.

00:09:38 Debra

I have encouraged the National Association to look at NAATI.

00:09:42 Debra

I think, you know, of all the things that we can look to around the world, the NAATI system is one of the best that I've seen in multiple countries in Australia.

00:09:50 Debra

And so, I like the idea of certifying interpreters and translators and at different levels of specialty.

00:09:58 Debra

I think that that's a good model and one that could work well for us as well.

00:10:03 Debra

So right now, we don't have a certification system.

00:10:05 Debra

And so, some people are returning to doing the American system because again, many of them work for American VRS companies [Tim: yeah] and want something to be able to say, you reach this milestone.

00:10:18 Debra

And so, I certainly understand why they would reach out and do that.

00:10:22 Tim

Sure.

00:10:23 Tim

Do you have to have certification to work as an interpreter in Canada?

00:10:27 Debra

No, you have to have graduated from one of our interpreting programs.

00:10:30 Tim

Okay.

00:10:31 Debra

I would say most agencies are very firm around requiring proof of education from a recognized program, [Tim: Mm-hmm] preferred membership in your National and provincial organization, and then some of our larger interpreter organizations’ referral services, I mean, have developed their own in-house screening tools, which in many ways mirror a national certification exam, but standard may not be quite the same.

00:11:00 Debra

And so, people have to pass those screening tools in order to be able to work for those agencies.

00:11:05 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

00:11:06 Tim

That may be one way for countries who don't have a national system in place to have some type of evaluation through say the Deaf organization and the agency.

00:11:19 Debra

I think that there's lots of ways to think about national screening tools as being an effective benchmark for countries to model and use for a while until they no longer serve them.

00:11:32 Tim

Right.

00:11:33 Debra

Yeah. We have one province in Canada as well too, when you ask about peculiarities of Canadian systems, maybe we have one province that also has protection of title, which is particular legislation.

00:11:44 Debra

So, you can't call yourself a sign language interpreter or an ASL/English interpreter or a registered sign language interpreter without meeting their criteria. [Tim: hmm]

00:11:54 Debra

And so, protection of title is given to many professions and spoken language interpreters have it in British Columbia and now sign language interpreters do as well.

00:12:04 Debra

So, it prevents sort of the rebel who may not have taken any training, just appears on the scene. [Tim chuckling]

00:12:10 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:12:15 Tim

So how is it, if I want to be a private practice interpreter, how do I find jobs?

00:12:24 Tim

How am I offered jobs and how do I get paid?

00:12:29 Debra

Mm-hmm. Great questions.

00:12:31 Debra

I think not to make this a promo for please move to Canada if you know Americans, [Tim chuckles] but we have a critical shortage of ASL interpreters in the country.

00:12:40 Debra

And so most interpreters find that there are multiple ways to get work, [Tim: Mm-hmm] but being registered with any one of the big service agencies, and there are many large interpreter referral services in the country.

00:12:55 Debra

So, when they are academically qualified and can pass the screening tools and they're on their roster, then the number of job offers that come through is huge.

00:13:06 Debra

Other times interpreters purport that they attract business just by being members of their professional association that have a directory. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:13:15 Debra

So, someone who's looking for a sign language interpreter might go to a provincial association and type in their location and find out the names of 10 interpreters who live close to that region. [Tim: yeah]

00:13:25 Tim

Are they paid through a social program or straight from an organization?

00:13:33 Debra

Very, very different than, for example, the, the work access programs that some of your listeners might be familiar with in the UK.

00:13:42 Debra

So, it's a combination of sometimes it's government funded.

00:13:47 Debra

So some of the things like medical interpreting would be paid through the government, [Tim: hmm, OK] but they could be paid to the interpreter referral service that then contracts you.

00:13:56 Debra

And so, I invoice them, but they invoice the government.

00:14:00 Debra

Courts I invoice directly and pay us directly, typically.

00:14:05 Debra

If it is a college or a university or an educational institution like that, the university contracts the interpreter and pays them directly.

00:14:15 Debra

Typically, although there is, I think, one or two agencies that specialize in post-secondary interpreting and they take care of all the government paperwork.

00:14:23 Debra

So that's all government funded as well.

00:14:25 Debra

But there's also fee for service.

00:14:27 Debra

And so much of the employment work, if somebody works for a large aerospace company, for example, building airplanes in a factory.

00:14:37 Debra

Those staff meetings are paid for by the employer.

00:14:40 Debra

And so that's a fee for service model.

00:14:44 Debra

So, combination of both for sure.

00:14:47 Debra

Media is typically paid for, legislation typically paid for, provincial governments for sure.

00:14:53 Debra

The Canadian government has just recently passed Accessible Canada Act a few years ago.

00:15:00 Debra

And so that's increased access to federal government services that are available for all citizens.

00:15:07 Debra

And they are using combinations of in-person and remote interpreting and on-demand services and so on, but all federally funded as well.

00:15:15 Tim

OK.

00:15:16 Tim

And since the government is involved, are there certain things that they do not pay for, certain situations or is there a limit?

00:15:25 Debra

Yeah, we don't have a model like that.

00:15:27 Debra

So, it's not a model based on, you know, here's your allotted number of hours of interpreting that you get. [Tim: OK]

00:15:33 Debra

And we don't have a national disability insurance scheme like the Australians, where Deaf people can predict what their interpreting needs are and self-manage that money.

00:15:43 Debra

We don't have that as well.

00:15:45 Debra

But there are certain things that I'm sure are a fight for interpreter referral services to get paid.

00:15:50 Debra

And in many ways, they sometimes take their portion of profit that might be earned, and then cover those things that are not typically covered. [Tim: OK]

00:16:00 Debra

So, funerals might not be a typical event that is paid for by the government by any means.

00:16:05 Debra

Wedding ceremonies are viewed as legal, but funerals are not.

00:16:09 Debra

So, you know, the logic escapes me on many degrees, [both lightly chuckling] but you know, pick my battles on that one. [Tim: yes]

00:16:17 Debra

But so, most agencies will cover those things in a community through their own budgeting.

00:16:24 Tim

OK, yeah.

00:16:25 Debra

But I think, you know, my impression from interpreter referral agencies as well too, is it's still not a given.

00:16:32 Debra

Like it's not just in people's minds that of course we would pay for interpreting access.

00:16:37 Debra

I think they still have to negotiate, and they still have to convince or control or, you know, threaten legal action perhaps in some cases in order to get interpreting covered.

00:16:47 Tim

Yeah.

00:16:48 Tim

So, it's comforting to know that it's similar in Canada as many other places, but discomforting to know that it's similar in Canada as it is in other places.

00:16:59 Debra

That's exactly it, right?

00:17:01 Debra

I mean, again, from the outside, it can look like, Canada, [Tim: Mm-hmm] land of milk and honey.

00:17:07 Debra

But no, we have all the same sorts of issues that I think other countries do.

00:17:12 Debra

So, there's a long ways to go yet in terms of the implementation of the UN CRPD.

00:17:18 Debra

And there's a long ways to go in terms of just public understanding. [Tim: yeah]

00:17:23 Debra

So even though that changed, I think in COVID times, we saw many interpreters represented around the world on their local medias.

00:17:31 Debra

But that awareness fades once the disease goes away and you don't particularly see interpreters again.

00:17:37 Debra

And so, they're just not part of their consciousness.

00:17:40 Tim

Yeah, exactly.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:17:42 Tim

And once this episode fades, the podcast is no longer a part of your consciousness.

00:17:48 Tim

I know, I get it.

00:17:49 Tim

But before that happens, take a moment, just a few of you, and click on the links to buy me a coffee to help pay for all the software it takes to get this episode out to you every week.

00:18:01 Tim

Thank you.

00:18:02 Tim

Click on the link now.

00:18:03 Tim

Are you still waiting?

00:18:04 Tim

Hello?

00:18:05 Tim

Are you listening still?

00:18:06 Tim

Good.

00:18:06 Tim

Thank you.

00:18:07 Tim

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:18:11 Tim

Going back, you mentioned in order to work as an interpreter, you have to have a degree from one of the appropriate interpreting programs.

00:18:20 Tim

But after that, what does the ongoing education look like?

00:18:25 Debra

And I just wanna be sure, you have to have graduated from one of those recognized programs, but we only have actually one degree program and the others are three-year programs.

00:18:34 Tim

OK.

00:18:35 Debra

So almost like an applied degree. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:18:38 Debra

In some countries, I think it's called an applied degree.

00:18:41 Debra

So, most of our programs, and we only have five across the country, we're a huge country, but we only have five.

00:18:47 Debra

One LSQ and the rest are ASL English programs.

00:18:52 Debra

So, graduation, obviously from one of those five programs and membership in CASLI, which is dependent on having access to formal education.

00:19:05 Debra

So, we've had some people who have attempted to take online programs in other countries and then move to Canada, and they've ended up not having those recognized and then not having access to work, so.

00:19:17 Tim

Yeah.

00:19:19 Debra

So ongoing education, I think looks like many countries in that after COVID, a lot of the professional development or ongoing education became online.

00:19:30 Tim

Yeah.

00:19:31 Debra

And so, people are accessing continuing education and ongoing education online.

00:19:37 Debra

And I think that that's lovely as an option, but it can't be our only option because again, you know, I sound like a broken record, Tim, but the relationships that you build by coming together and learning together, I think are just so significant.

00:19:55 Debra

And you build a learning community and a community of practice.

00:20:00 Debra

And so, we've had less conferences, I think, in Canada, although I'm pleased to say that I'm hosting one in October [Tim: yeah] for three provinces, and I think that will be a wonderful event for people to come to.

00:20:12 Debra

So, we need more of those face-to-face opportunities, I think, to do both the learning but do the community building as well.

00:20:20 Debra

Yeah, so ongoing education…

00:20:22 Debra

And again, because our certification system is on hold right now, there isn't a requirement for X number of hours of professional development.

00:20:32 Debra

And I've always felt mixed about that because I think as a working professional, I shouldn't have to wait for my association to tell me that I need 60 hours of professional development over a two-year cycle or whatever it is. [Tim: yeah]

00:20:44 Debra

I should just be engaged enough that I want to participate in that learning and that ongoing learning.

00:20:51 Debra

I just think we just have to be curious for life.

00:20:54 Debra

And so, the fact that we don't have that right now, I don't think is a problem.

00:20:59 Debra

We still have people engaging online, but I worry about engaging online because you can engage online and still be doing your laundry or checking your messages or doing whatever one does online. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:21:12 Debra

I don't think that's the same as ongoing education. [Tim: yeah, yeah]

00:21:17 Tim

Let's turn our attention back to the world, especially your involvement with the World Association of Sign Language Interpreters or WASLI.

00:21:29 Tim

What was the impetus or what was the opportunity for you to get involved with WASLI in the first place?

00:21:39 Debra

Mm-hmm. You know, I think it’s similar to how I started in this profession is that I didn't think I was getting involved in WASLI. [both chuckling]

00:21:46 Debra

So, I went to a WFD conference in Australia, and it was my first.

00:21:51 Debra

And I did a little bit of interpreting, and I went to the interpreter meeting with all of the other interpreters who were working for their national countries. [Tim: yeah]

00:22:00 Debra

And at that meeting, there was talk of being able to create an international association and that it was time to create an international association.

00:22:10 Debra

And somehow, before I knew it, I was on a bylaws committee with Bill Moody [both chuckling] to try and create some bylaws of some sort.

00:22:20 Debra

And then I think it was probably at the next WFD conference in Montreal, I think 2003, that again, that group of interpreters from around the world were all in the same room.

00:22:35 Debra

And again, through the leadership, I think of people like Liz Scott Gibson, recognizing that we were probably ready to have a founding meeting and that there was enough momentum, there were enough countries that had interpreter associations [Tim: Mm-hmm] to perhaps justify an international organization.

00:22:55 Debra

And similar to the experience in Canada, WFD was really saying, “It's time, you need your own organization.” [Tim: yeah]

00:23:03 Debra

“And so it's time to get moving.”

00:23:06 Debra

So that was 2003 and then 2005 was our founding meeting in South Africa in Worcester.

00:23:14 Debra

And so when that conference took place, then I came on as the North American Rep representing Mexico, and the United States, and Canada. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:23:25 Debra

And what a huge learning curve and what a huge privilege of being there at the beginning. [Tim: yeah]

00:23:31 Debra

I think I like the beginnings.

00:23:33 Debra

I think I like that sense of, you know, start from scratch and see what builds. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:23:39 Debra

I think that appeals to me a lot.

00:23:42 Debra

And so, I loved that experience.

00:23:43 Debra

And so, similar to the experience of coming through your local or your provincial organization and taking on leadership roles and then Nationally and then testing the waters.

00:23:54 Debra

And there were other Canadian Deaf leaders who were also coming onto the WFD board at the same time that I was.

00:24:01 Debra

So, our paths were very parallel.

00:24:04 Debra

You know, Len Mitchell had been under the Canadian Association of the Deaf when I was president of AVLIC.

00:24:10 Debra

He came onto the WFD board when I went onto the WASLI board.

00:24:13 Debra

So, I've appreciated that sort of parallel history as well too. [Tim: yeah]

00:24:19 Debra

And then I think, you know, somehow, I found myself in the president's role and that was not my intent either. [both chuckle]

00:24:25 Debra

I don't think I set out to do that either, but that's what happened.

00:24:31 Tim

When you became, well, let's see, you were North American representative and then later the presidency, right?

00:24:39 Tim

What happened that surprised you the most, being a North American representative or being in the role as president?

00:24:49 Tim

Which one gave you the most surprises?

00:24:54 Debra

I think the North American role had more familiarity for me, so I understood the Canadian context, I thought I had a broad base of understanding of the American system and learned quickly in terms of the Mexican context.

00:25:12 Debra

So that felt like that was familiar territory.

00:25:15 Debra

There were some surprises around Mexico, always surprises behind the veil of our AVLIC for sure, but it was less surprising to me.

00:25:26 Debra

But, coming on to the international level, and again, I think many surprises and many, many gifts that came from that experience that I will always, always treasure.

00:25:39 Debra

But what was surprising for me, I think, was just seeing the diversity of, again, what interpreting can look like in so many countries.

00:25:49 Debra

And seeing countries that had beautiful systems that worked well and seeing countries that had no systems and then seeing countries that had had systems and let them disintegrate and were trying to rebuild.

00:26:03 Debra

And so those kinds of surprises I think were interesting for me as well too.

00:26:09 Debra

And I think, always surprised at how much work there still is to do.

00:26:17 Debra

You know, I've had a long career and yet I'm always surprised at, oh, we haven't learned that lesson yet, or we haven't got that piece yet.

00:26:25 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

00:26:27 Tim

How easy or how difficult, or perhaps what challenges did you see as you were in the president's role and you're trying to get awareness in the different countries of what WASLI really is, the mission really is, how you can support, how you can't support, and trying to pull in new organizations or getting new members or getting them to be active.

00:26:59 Tim

What was it that was the most difficult?

00:27:04 Debra

Many things were difficult about that, but I think that for countries that are knowledge rich but resource poor, one of the challenges was how do we help them create an organization that is sustainable, not an organization that just emerges and then collapses two years later when people move away or do something different. [Tim: yeah]

00:27:29 Debra

So, sustainability and leadership training, huge challenges in many countries and being able to balance expectations of what those countries needed and what they wanted, and what we could realistically provide with the volunteer resources we had.

00:27:49 Debra

I think those are huge challenges.

00:27:52 Debra

I think that one of the things that was really positive is that Colin Allen, who was the president and elected at the same time as I was, he and I traveled a great deal together.

00:28:03 Debra

And so, I think one of the positive things that came out of that was that maybe there was some role modeling [Tim: hmm] for many countries around, “This partnership actually works really well for them. What can we learn from these two that we could actually implement in our country?”

00:28:20 Debra

So, I hope that that was a positive opportunity for some of those countries.

00:28:26 Debra

I think it was a blessing and a curse, Nelson Mandela's funeral, [Tim: Mm-hmm] that fake interpreter, we could not have bought that much PR [Tim: yeah] ever.

00:28:39 Debra

Because that went viral and Colin and I worked really hard at making sure that we could communicate no matter where we were in the world and we made ourselves accessible.

00:28:48 Debra

And so within 20 minutes of both of us seeing that on the news, we both knew that there was an opportunity [Tim: yeah] to be able to educate in the ways best that we could around what a professional interpreter is, and it's not that. [Tim: yeah]

00:29:02 Debra

And then helping other countries to say what they need to say about what professional interpreters look like in their country, because that wasn't for us to say, but for us to say it Internationally, we can agree that a professional interpreter is this.

00:29:16 Debra

I think that was a huge opportunity for us [Tim: yeah] that came out of a very difficult event for South Africa, for sure.

00:29:25 Debra

I think the challenge of what region do you focus on first [Tim: yeah] when there are so many regions and it's a large global community and at the start of having access to the internet and countries being able to see that there is an opportunity here to be able to learn from other countries.

00:29:47 Debra

And there is an organization that should be doing all of that for us.

00:29:50 Debra

I think those were challenges for us as well, too, is where do you invest first?

00:29:54 Debra

And I certainly applaud the Latin American region because WASLI had a sponsorship program similar to Europe in APSLE when they have the sponsorship program and you bring in, I forget what yours is called, SAF.

00:30:08 Tim

SAF.

00:30:10 Debra

Yeah, so we have a similar sponsorship program in WASLI.

00:30:14 Debra

And so, a woman came, Isabel Rey, came from Peru to our conference in 2007 in Spain.

00:30:21 Debra

And she was a sponsor delegate, and she had only Googled international interpreter associations, found us, found our sponsorship form, filled it out, and away she came.

00:30:32 Tim

Wow.

00:30:33 Debra

And she came away from that conference, and it was nothing I don't think that we did, Tim.

00:30:38 Debra

It was her opportunity to see what was going on in the rest of the world.

00:30:43 Debra

And she went back and formed an association in Peru.

00:30:46 Debra

And then she went on to become the Latin American Rep.

00:30:49 Debra

And then she went on to help them form ten associations in Latin America.

00:30:53 Debra

And now I think they are one of the most active interpreter regions really in terms of they've had regional conferences consistently over the last 15 years.

00:31:04 Debra

They've had National conferences.

00:31:07 Debra

They really are moving and shaking in ways [Tim: yeah] that I think North America could learn from.

00:31:12 Debra

I think we are being a little complacent about our knowledge levels and our opportunities to get out there and learn.

00:31:19 Debra

And I think…

00:31:21 Debra

I think they're doing it.

00:31:22 Debra

And so, I applaud that region.

00:31:24 Debra

I think that we still have so much more to do in many other regions, but that region has been a model for other regions, I think.

00:31:31 Tim

Yeah.

00:31:32 Tim

I want to clarify for those who don't know for sure, when we say WASLI, the World Association of Sign Language Interpreters, it doesn't necessarily mean it's one big organization for interpreters, or does it?

00:31:48 Tim

What is the mission of WASLI?

00:31:51 Debra

Great question.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:31:58 Tim

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the answer is next week.

00:32:03 Tim

What did we learn today over the 10, 20, or 30 minutes that we were listening?

00:32:09 Tim

We learned about Canada and how they looked to those who had come before them, who had experienced what they were going through.

00:32:18 Tim

We can all learn from that, learn from those who have come before us.

00:32:22 Tim

Study the history.

00:32:24 Tim

Ask those who lived it.

00:32:25 Tim

They have a better perspective of what worked, what didn't work, how they would have changed things.

00:32:32 Tim

And that's what we can learn from to make what we're doing even better.

00:32:36 Tim

And we can also look towards those who are developing right now, those who are just starting the profession and those who are struggling through the middle of their development, whatever that means.

00:32:51 Tim

We can see the strengths that they have, the ideas that they have, that we didn't think of, the systems that they are using that might help us think or rethink what we have done and what we're doing to maybe improve and to fix some of the problems that we see that we haven't learned from yet…

00:33:12 Tim

…because we were looking with our own lenses.

00:33:15 Tim

But now that we see through their eyes, through their perspective, see the reasons why they do things, maybe we can rethink our reasoning too.

00:33:27 Tim

Some good lessons.

00:33:28 Tim

Next week, let's learn more from her perspective, Debra Russell, and see how we can improve even more.

00:33:36 Tim

Until then, keep calm, keep the 10, 20, 30 years of interpreting going for you.

00:33:43 Tim

I'll see you next week.

00:33:45 Tim

Take care now.

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