IW 202: Interview Stephanie Nichols Part 2: Problems Exist but Qualified and Trust is a Solution

Why do I have to pay for an interpreter?! It's the law.

Stephanie and I talk about the Americans with Disability Act (ADA) and how it applies to the ASL/English interpreter profession. In this discussion, we learn how interpreter agencies advocate for our clients and for working interpreters.

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IW 202: Interview Stephanie Nichols Part 2: Problems Exist but Qualified and Trust is a Solution

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:35 Tim

And now, the quote of the day by Rhonda Byrne from her book, The Secret.

00:00:42 Tim

“Instead of focusing on the world's problems, give your attention and energy to trust, love, abundance, education, and peace.”

00:00:56 Tim

Today, we continue the conversation with Stephanie Nichols, the CEO and founder of the interpreter agency, Sign Language Resource Services, SLRS.

00:01:08 Tim

We start off where we left last week with a question, and we expand that conversation into how the famous law of Americans with Disabilities Act is applied to our profession with several examples of how accessibility is given, whether people want to or not, how it's paid, and how the interpreter agency can build this trust and peace in our working conditions as sign language interpreters.

00:01:39 Tim

So, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:45 Tim

You said something earlier that I think I need clarification on about a venue…

00:01:51 Stephanie

A wedding venue.

00:01:52 Tim

Like a wedding venue that you're renting a hall for your wedding, and they have to provide services.

00:01:59 Stephanie

Yeah, they have to make their services accessible.

00:02:03 Tim

Like the wedding ceremony or do you mean… really?

00:02:07 Stephanie

Yeah, if the wedding venue is putting on a service for you, that service must be accessible.

00:02:14 Stephanie

So, bring it back down to a ramp.

00:02:16 Stephanie

If a wedding venue is saying you can have a wedding at our venue, the venue must make that physically accessible with a ramp.

00:02:26 Stephanie

Same law, auxiliary, a different kind of auxiliary aid. [Tim: Yeah, yeah]

00:02:30 Stephanie

So, that would be an instance where a venue needs to be making its services accessible.

00:02:36 Stephanie

Now, there's a lot of weddings that don't have a venue.

00:02:40 Stephanie

They haven't gone through a wedding service. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:02:44 Stephanie

They're just doing it on their own.

00:02:45 Stephanie

They've asked, you know, Joe, my pastor, and we're getting married.

00:02:48 Tim

Yeah.

00:02:49 Stephanie

That would be an instance where a Deaf person would, they would have to pay for it or their family would have to. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:02:55 Tim

Or get someone to do it for free.

00:02:58 Stephanie

Yeah.

00:02:59 Tim

If the venue or the doctor or a lawyer, if they can't bill the client for the extra services, how do they make money?

00:03:09 Tim

They could possibly be losing money on that one service, couldn't they? [Stephanie: Yeah]

00:03:14 Tim

Or how does it work that way for them?

00:03:17 Stephanie

That's actually quite typical.

00:03:19 Stephanie

Let's use a Medicare patient, for example.

00:03:22 Stephanie

So, a person's on Medicare.

00:03:24 Stephanie

Medicare tells the doctor's office how much they will pay for, let's say, just a routine doctor's appointment.

00:03:30 Stephanie

Let's just say it's $50.

00:03:32 Stephanie

And then let's just say interpreting services cost 100.

00:03:35 Stephanie

Obviously, you're right, you're immediately in a $50 deficit.

00:03:39 Stephanie

In the Americans with Disabilities Act, you cannot provide a more expensive service than you can afford if it causes an undue burden, an undue financial burden, let's say. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:03:52 Stephanie

So, let's say a lot of people think that a nonprofit is automatically exempt.

00:03:58 Stephanie

They are not.

00:03:59 Stephanie

Let's say I'm running a nonprofit organization, and my annual revenue is $5,000.

00:04:06 Stephanie

and I'm putting on a conference and I've collected an in-kind, I'm going to do an in-kind for a speaker, an in-kind, or I'll collect this and then give that, you know, as non-profits do.

00:04:17 Stephanie

If a Deaf person wanted to come to, let's say, a conference that I was doing that way, that it is very possible, probable, that will be an undue burden. [Tim: Yeah]

00:04:28 Stephanie

Now as an organization, if it's an undue burden, I can't just say, sorry, I have to try to do something, but if interpreting services is too much, then I don't, I'm exempt.

00:04:40 Tim

Okay.

00:04:40 Stephanie

Under the ADA, let's say.

00:04:42 Stephanie

that then I would work with trying to help them get something or try to, whatever.

00:04:48 Stephanie

I would have to try to do something provide it in writing or try to do something.

00:04:53 Tim

Or do what you said earlier, in-kind.

00:04:55 Tim

If an interpreter gives their services, I can give them something…

00:05:00 Stephanie

Exactly.

00:05:00 Tim

…from this service.

00:05:01 Tim

So, you're bartering, trading your service for my service.

00:05:05 Stephanie

Exactly.

00:05:06 Stephanie

But an undue burden is rarely a thing.

00:05:12 Stephanie

So, for example, we will have a doctor's office say, I only get $50, you're charging me 100, that's an undue burden.

00:05:20 Stephanie

There's not a court case at all where we could look at and see where a judge said, in this one instance, did you lose money. [Tim: yeah]

00:05:29 Stephanie

They will look at the annual revenue of a company and then they will say, was the $100 an undue?

00:05:36 Stephanie

Generally, not.

00:05:38 Stephanie

And so, I guess to answer your question, if you are running a successful business, you have overhead you need to look at, you have fixed costs you need to look at, you have all these things you need to look at, plan accordingly.

00:05:52 Stephanie

And if you don't, your business probably won't grow.

00:05:56 Tim

Yeah.

00:05:57 Tim

And once you go through that in one year and you realize I'm having to have a lot of interpreting services, then you need to say, “Well, that's an expense. I need to plan for it.”

00:06:08 Stephanie

Exactly.

00:06:09 Tim

…for the next year so that my business can still stay profitable.

00:06:14 Stephanie

Exactly.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:06:18 Tim

Another nitty gritty detail…

00:06:21 Tim

As an agency, how do you handle it when you have interpreters that don't want to work with certain clients or they don't want to work with another interpreter because of personal reasons, whatever it is?

00:06:34 Tim

How can you adjust to that?

00:06:37 Tim

Or do you?

00:06:38 Stephanie

So… we do.

00:06:39 Stephanie

In our database, we collect the customer, the hearing customer's preferences.

00:06:46 Stephanie

We collect the Deaf consumer's preferences.

00:06:50 Stephanie

We call the hearing, we call the businesses – customers, and we call the Deaf people – consumers.

00:06:58 Stephanie

And so, when, so we, and we track preferences and we track interpreter preferences.

00:07:05 Tim

Okay.

00:07:05 Stephanie

So, let's say Mary from.

00:07:09 Stephanie

XYZ company orders and we put it in, and we put in the date and immediately their preferences pop up.

00:07:16 Stephanie

And then when they tell us who the Deaf person is, we type in their name and their preferences pop up.

00:07:22 Stephanie

And then if, and then when we're looking at the scheduling and the different part of the database, we're looking at scheduling, we can see their preference.

00:07:29 Tim

Okay.

00:07:30 Stephanie

And so if they've requested like a male only, then the pink interpreter, the female interpreters are highlighted in pink.

00:07:38 Stephanie

You see what I mean?

00:07:39 Stephanie

So, we can go, oh, not the pink ones. [both laughing]

00:07:46 Stephanie

See, I told you I'm very visual.

00:07:48 Stephanie

I'm seeing it right there.

00:07:50 Tim

Yeah, I know.

00:07:52 Tim

Yeah. So, no pink interpreters.

00:07:55 Stephanie

Or it'll say, I don't want Joe Smith.

00:07:57 Stephanie

And then when Joe, when we pop up the list, Joe Smith will have a line through his name.

00:08:02 Stephanie

Not Joe.

00:08:04 Tim

No, Joe.

00:08:06 Tim

No-go Joe. [both chuckling]

00:08:07 Stephanie

So…

00:08:08 Stephanie

No, go, Joe.

00:08:09 Stephanie

So, we have that.

00:08:10 Stephanie

And everyone has a list. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:08:12 Tim

Yeah.

00:08:13 Stephanie

Everyone has a list, you know?

00:08:15 Stephanie

It's perfectly normal for people to have lists.

00:08:18 Stephanie

Companies have lists, Deaf people have lists, and interpreters have lists.

00:08:21 Tim

Okay.

00:08:23 Stephanie

And we do track all that.

00:08:24 Tim

Okay.

00:08:26 Tim

And how do you handle, let's say, disgruntled or dissatisfied Deaf consumers?

00:08:35 Stephanie

Mm-hmm. We have a formal grievance – policy and procedure.

00:08:40 Stephanie

This is our 26th year.

00:08:41 Stephanie

We've never had anyone carry through to the end with a formal grievance.

00:08:47 Stephanie

So that means Deaf people don't want to complain.

00:08:51 Stephanie

And if you think about it, you know, if I'm complaining about interpreting services, then am I going to have interpreting services?

00:08:59 Tim

Yeah.

00:09:00 Stephanie

If I complain to my doctor that you're not doing something, am I going to get medical care? [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:09:05 Stephanie

I'm sure that that has a lot to do with it.

00:09:07 Stephanie

We try to make it as easy on them as possible, on everyone as possible.

00:09:12 Stephanie

So, most of the time, what we get is just a phone call of somebody going, okay, so-and-so did such and such, and that made me mad.

00:09:20 Stephanie

And then... [grumble, grumble sounds]

00:09:22 Tim

Yeah.

00:09:22 Stephanie

And we just listen. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:09:25 Stephanie

If it's, well, for example, we got a call, the Deaf person called and said, that interpreter wore a miniskirt and had blue hair and I never want her again.

00:09:35 Tim

Okay.

00:09:36 Stephanie

Man.

00:09:36 Stephanie

Yeah.

00:09:37 Stephanie

Okay.

00:09:37 Stephanie

Not a problem.

00:09:38 Stephanie

We will not send her back.

00:09:40 Tim

Yeah.

00:09:40 Stephanie

So, stuff like that.

00:09:41 Stephanie

We've even had, I mean, we've had some silly things.

00:09:44 Stephanie

“The interpreter was too fat.”

00:09:46 Tim

Wow.

00:09:46 Stephanie

It was one of the silly ones.

00:09:48 Stephanie

Yeah.

00:09:49 Stephanie

And so, I'm not going to call an interpreter and say that. [Tim chuckles]

00:09:53 Stephanie

So, we just…

00:09:54 Tim

Was that for a weight loss clinic? Or? [failing at humor]

00:09:56 Tim

Sorry.

00:09:57 Stephanie

Not at all. [laughing]

00:09:58 Tim

Too soon?

00:09:58 Tim

Too soon.

00:10:02 Stephanie

No, not at all.

00:10:02 Stephanie

And so, I think we just listen.

00:10:05 Stephanie

Yeah.

00:10:06 Stephanie

And off, you know, sometimes it's, you know, you think, well, that's kind of silly, but I'm going to listen.

00:10:16 Stephanie

I'm just going to listen and then I'm not going to send that person again or whatever.

00:10:20 Stephanie

We're small enough and we're the largest agency in Oklahoma, but we're still small enough that we have a mom-and-pop feel, which is nice because you want to know your people. [Tim: yeah]

00:10:32 Stephanie

You want to know a national agency just look you up on a list and call, but we know that Deaf person and we know that interpreter and we can, we can have a much more mom-and-pop feel, you know, feel to it, which is nice.

00:10:47 Stephanie

Corporate America sucks.

00:10:49 Stephanie

It's great, but it sucks, in that you're a number or a name [Tim: Mm-hmm] and you're a puzzle piece that I'm just plugging in.

00:10:56 Stephanie

And with a mom and pop, you get a more, I think, a better product.

00:11:01 Tim

Yeah.

00:11:02 Tim

We always say the Deaf community is is small, but we also say the interpreting community is small.

00:11:10 Tim

And when you know everybody, it has its pros because then you can match the preferences and the communication can go smoother because you know each other.

00:11:23 Tim

When it gets bigger than that, it's really hard.

00:11:26 Tim

It takes different skills to be able to provide services in a generic way until you get to know that person.

00:11:34 Stephanie

Right.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:11:36 Tim

Now that you've gotten to know me and the podcast, enjoying these informational gifts every week, please do me a favor.

00:11:44 Tim

Click on the link in the show notes to Buy Me A Coffee.

00:11:47 Tim

That would be a tremendous help to pay for all of the online connections that I need to make this possible.

00:11:54 Tim

Thank you.

00:11:55 Tim

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:11:58 Tim

Over the years, I know it's been a struggle to involve Deaf interpreters.

00:12:05 Tim

Well, over the many years, it's been tough in every country.

00:12:09 Tim

How did it evolve from when you started the agency to now?

00:12:16 Stephanie

So, this is going to be one of those topics that, and I'm just going to be transparent and let the cards fall where they will.

00:12:24 Tim

Oh, dear.

00:12:25 Stephanie

About 10 years ago, I made a decision that we were going to start using Deaf interpreters.

00:12:34 Stephanie

And at that time, we had one certified Deaf interpreter in the whole state of Oklahoma.

00:12:38 Stephanie

And now, wait for it, …we have two.

00:12:41 Tim

Two, whoa. [both chuckling]

00:12:45 Stephanie

So yeah, but we have several working interpreters, working Deaf interpreters.

00:12:50 Stephanie

We just call them DIs.

00:12:51 Stephanie

We collectively, I collectively call them DIs.

00:12:56 Stephanie

We have two DIs on staff.

00:12:58 Stephanie

So, I made the decision about 10 years ago that my agency was going to start providing DI services when I thought they were needed and let the cards fall where they, where they may.

00:13:13 Stephanie

I knew that meant I was going to, as a business owner, take a hit, because I was the only agency saying that.

00:13:21 Tim

Yeah.

00:13:22 Stephanie

And so, for us, if there is a linguistic need, or if there's a communication linguistic need for a DI, [Tim: Mm-hmm] we are going to send one.

00:13:35 Stephanie

And we will tell our customer we're going to send one.

00:13:39 Stephanie

And if they say no, then we say we can't help them.

00:13:44 Stephanie

And so, the response was actually pretty positive, which shocked me because I was expecting a hit.

00:13:52 Tim

Wow.

00:13:54 Stephanie

And so, after the linguistic need, then very quickly we learned that there are cultural needs too. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:14:01 Stephanie

So, if I culturally need a Deaf interpreter, then I'm going to send one.

00:14:07 Stephanie

And that will be my call, not yours as a hearing customer.

00:14:13 Tim

Right.

00:14:14 Stephanie

If I call a carpenter and request that he make me a table, I do not tell him how many boards to use.

00:14:21 Tim

Yeah. [chuckling]

00:14:23 Stephanie

I trust that he'll make the table with however many boards he needs.

00:14:27 Stephanie

And that's kind of my view on it, and it's in my contracts.

00:14:31 Stephanie

I will tell you when we're the language experts, we're the sign language experts, we will make that call, you don't know how to make that.

00:14:41 Stephanie

So, we're going to send you what you need for communication to happen. [Tim: yeah]

00:14:46 Stephanie

And it's been pretty positive.

00:14:48 Stephanie

Now, I will say that I remember RID put out an article several years ago that said it's basically against the Code of Professional Conduct if you don't send a DI every time.

00:15:01 Stephanie

I realized that would be wonderful. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:15:04 Stephanie

That's hard for me to justify.

00:15:06 Stephanie

That's hard for me to sell.

00:15:08 Stephanie

And I'm sorry to use such bold words to say, but it boils down to I'm an agency selling a service, selling a product, and I have to find a buyer. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:15:21 Stephanie

I can't justify sending a Deaf interpreter every single time. [Tim: yeah]

00:15:25 Stephanie

So, we, where we also, where we track preferences of Deaf people, we also track language. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:15:31 Stephanie

So, if we, have a, if somebody is tactile, they're always tactile.

00:15:37 Stephanie

So, we just mark them as tactiles.

00:15:38 Stephanie

Every time services are ordered for that person, we can tell the consumer we're going to have a tactile interpreter.

00:15:46 Stephanie

And if they are low language level person or whatever, we're going to provide a Deaf interpreter to that. [Tim: yeah]

00:15:56 Stephanie

If we have an instance and a cultural need, so if you get arrested in the middle of the night and you're one of our DIs, [Tim: Oh!] in other words, if you're completely bilingual, you have no linguistic need for a DI, we're sending a DI because that is a highly volatile situation.

00:16:14 Stephanie

And I don't ever want the Deaf person to have to worry about how low do I have to bring my skills for the hearing.

00:16:23 Stephanie

I don't ever want a Deaf person to have to worry about that. [Tim: yeah]

00:16:25 Stephanie

I want a Deaf person to just focus on their situation.

00:16:29 Stephanie

If DHS is coming in and taking their kids, we're gonna send a DI.

00:16:34 Stephanie

It doesn't matter the language.

00:16:36 Stephanie

If we have a, you know, rape situation or anything like that, if we have a DI available, we're going to send it.

00:16:44 Tim

Yeah.

00:16:45 Tim

How has the response from the Deaf community been with that?

00:16:50 Tim

Do they sometimes not want a Deaf interpreter there because of the community or?

00:16:55 Stephanie

Sometimes I don't, I'm not sure if it's a community concern.

00:16:59 Stephanie

We've received very little negative feedback.

00:17:03 Stephanie

There are some people who, in my opinion, need a DI, but have said, I don't ever want a DI, and I will respect that.

00:17:13 Tim

That's the preference thing again.

00:17:16 Stephanie

Yeah.

00:17:16 Stephanie

And then we may have a hearing interpreter on site with that person that says, “Oh, I need a DI.”

00:17:20 Stephanie

This person refuses to use DIs.

00:17:24 Stephanie

So, we try to pick people who have native-like skills.

00:17:29 Tim

Yeah.

00:17:30 Stephanie

If you're a CODA, we track that.

00:17:31 Stephanie

If you are a very good interpreter with native-like skills, we track that.

00:17:35 Tim

Right.

00:17:36 Stephanie

And so, there's instances if they won't use a DI, we're going to try to send somebody a hearing interpreter with native like skills, which is another mom-and-pop feature that is hard to have with corporate agencies.

00:17:47 Tim

Yeah, exactly.

00:17:49 Tim

How do you handle accountability as far as, say, the qualifications of an interpreter?

00:17:56 Stephanie

We vet every interpreter.

00:17:58 Stephanie

So, in Oklahoma, we are very, I'm going to use quotes, “certification-minded”.

00:18:05 Stephanie

We have a QAST system in Oklahoma, Quality Assurance Screening Test, Q-A-S-T, QAST system in Oklahoma.

00:18:13 Stephanie

And so really working interpreters are certified.

00:18:18 Stephanie

And I'm not saying QAST certified is an iffy certification.

00:18:22 Stephanie

I know that's a whole can of worms and I'm not opening that.

00:18:25 Stephanie

I'm just saying we are certification minded.

00:18:30 Stephanie

So, most interpreters are certified.

00:18:34 Stephanie

We have a screening.

00:18:35 Stephanie

We can screen skills.

00:18:37 Stephanie

So, we usually just go on your certification.

00:18:41 Stephanie

If you are a nationally certified interpreter, we will put you in this level of thing.

00:18:45 Stephanie

We have a tier system.

00:18:47 Stephanie

Every assignment that we get is assigned a tier, a minimum tier level that we feel that assignment needs.

00:18:53 Stephanie

So right when we're taking the order, we assign it a tier level. [Tim: yeah]

00:18:57 Stephanie

So, we ask a lot of questions.

00:19:01 Stephanie

And I pride myself, as a former working interpreter, it was frustrating to get an assignment with very little info.

00:19:09 Stephanie

And then I get on site and I'm ill-equipped or not qualified or whatever.

00:19:16 Stephanie

And it could have been avoided if just a few more questions had been answered.

00:19:20 Stephanie

So, our online order form has a lot of questions.

00:19:25 Stephanie

And I know it's a lot more than a lot of other agencies, but as an interpreter, I want to know what I'm getting.

00:19:31 Tim

Yeah, exactly.

00:19:33 Stephanie

And I want to know where you want me to park.

00:19:35 Stephanie

So, we ask that.

00:19:37 Stephanie

And I want to know when you want me to arrive.

00:19:39 Stephanie

So, we ask that.

00:19:40 Stephanie

And I want to know when you think I'm leaving.

00:19:42 Stephanie

So, we ask that.

00:19:44 Stephanie

We don't assume as an interpreter we'll get there 15 minutes early.

00:19:47 Stephanie

We ask the customer, what time do you want the interpreter to be there?

00:19:51 Stephanie

And that's what time the interpreter will be there.

00:19:53 Tim

Yeah.

00:19:54 Tim

Some places have security, which take forever or what have you.

00:19:57 Stephanie

Yeah, exactly.

00:19:58 Stephanie

And an interpreter isn't going to volunteer 30 minutes of their time to get through the security gate.

00:20:03 Stephanie

If your security checkpoints require 30 minutes of a person's time and you have an 11 o'clock appointment, the interpreter will arrive at 1030 and 1030 is when the clock starts.

00:20:14 Stephanie

And you will pay from 1030 till whenever. [Tim: Yeah, yeah]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:20:16 Tim

Let me clarify a little bit of what you were kind of implying. I want to make sure I understood the implication, especially for those who are just listening and not seeing the visual cues that we have. When you're putting certification in quotes and saying Oklahoma's certification minded, does that mean you're

00:20:40 Tim

comparing certification to qualified?

00:20:44 Stephanie

Well, I'm saying that in Oklahoma, it is expected that you are certified. You either have RID, BEI, or QAST. You have one of those. Some people will call EIPA, for me…

00:21:04 Stephanie

I use the language of the EIPA system and that is they are screening and not a certification. So, we use that as a credential. We do not consider you certified if you only have EIPA or ESSE. You're credentialed and you may be qualified that you're not certified. We are open to using a non-certified person. All of our Deaf interpreters are uncertified, but you'll have to go through our screening.

00:21:35 Stephanie

But almost none of our interpreters are in that category. Almost 90, at this point, other than our Deaf interpreters, all of our interpreters are certified. So, in Oklahoma, it is expected that you are certified in one of those things. So that's what I mean by, there's a lot of States that there is no, there are no certifications and they don't, a lot of working interpreters, the majority of working interpreters aren't certified. [Tim: Uh-huh]

00:22:03 Stephanie

They've gone through agency screenings, but they're not necessarily certified. In Oklahoma, most working interpreters are certified.

00:22:11 Tim

Okay.

00:22:12 Tim

Interesting. Hmm.

00:22:15 Stephanie

But that could mean you are a QAST level one, which is, we don't even use QAST level ones.

00:22:22 Tim

Right.

00:22:23 Stephanie

It's a very, it's the lowest certification. So, on a level one through three test, spoken at below normal speaking speeds and using non-technical terms, you were able to effectively interpret 50%. We don't use them. [chuckling]

00:22:36 Tim

Yeah, I would not use those myself.

00:22:39 Stephanie

But a lot of school districts now have those. [Tim: hmm] I mean, but that's probably a nationwide one.

00:22:46 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

00:22:48 Stephanie

A worldwide.

00:22:48 Tim

Worldwide, I would say even. Yeah.

00:22:51 Tim

Okay. Speaking of certification, credentials, education, screenings, …

00:22:59 Tim

How do agencies fit into continuing development, continuing education for interpreters?

00:23:08 Stephanie

So again, as a certified-minded state, all certifications have a continuing education component, RID, BEI, and QAST. They all have a continuing education requirement to maintain their certification. [Tim: OK]

00:23:24 Stephanie

So we don't per se have to focus on that.

00:23:28 Stephanie

We feel as an agency the obligation to provide education when that's needed. Often there's a gap from ITP graduates to working interpreters. We have a paid apprenticeship. We provide sponsorships to Deaf organizations, interpreting organizations. So, we feel a sense of responsibility towards our community in that regard. [Tim: Mm-hmm] We have at times put on a workshop series for working interpreters.

00:23:58 Stephanie

So, we feel like we are a component of that, and we take that obligation seriously. We want to be involved with that and be part of the solution.

00:24:08 Tim

Right. There are no problems, only solutions. That's correct.

00:24:14 Stephanie

Oh, no, there's problems.

00:24:15 Tim

Oh, there's problems. [both chuckling]

00:24:18 Stephanie

I'm sorry, did I, did I lead you to think that? [still laughing]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:24:29 Tim

Speaking of locally, state level, national level, internationally, how has your agency, how have you been affected by this globalization of spoken language interpreters - agencies, reaching out to sign language interpreters, getting them on board as independent contractors with them, how has that affected you?

00:24:58 Stephanie

Yeah. So, when I first started 26 years ago, my competitor was one other agency in Oklahoma. So that's who I had to compete with. Yeah. [Tim: Mm-hmm] Then as more agencies came into the State, I want my business to thrive. And so, I'm very much a “who moved my cheese” kind of person. So, I try to be very mindful of where the cheese is.

00:25:26 Stephanie

And so, when I see the cheese moving, I try to respond accordingly. Do you know what I mean? [Tim: Yeah] Yeah, and so, I try to be mindful about that. So, I try to keep my finger on that. And I will exploit shortcomings. I mean, come on. [chuckles] [Tim: Mm-hmm] If there is an agency doing something poorly, I'm going to do it well. If there is an agency doing something well, I'm going to do it better. [laughs] [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:25:54 Stephanie

So, I want interpreters to want to work for me. [Tim: Right] Because that's where you provide the best service is when you want to be there. I want Deaf people to tell their doctors to call us because they trust us. I'm not going to send an interpreter that isn't qualified, or at least not initially. If we're in there, and we find out that one, that person wasn't qualified, we'll do something about that.

00:26:19 Stephanie

Or if, you know, we made a mistake or something. But we, but we try very, we're very mindful about sending interpreters that can do the job. When, you know, the ITP has graduates, I go and try to convince the best ones, come, come, come over here. [Tim: yeah] So quality is important to me. You know, I've been married, I've been sitting there as the wife watching the interpreter going, I'm going to have to go home and explain all this.

00:26:46 Tim

Yeah.

00:26:47 Stephanie

That's frustrating. I don't want, I don't want anyone to. And then if the Deaf person didn't have a hearing person that was listening and could go home and explain everything, now they just don't have the information. I don't want to be that, I don't want that to be my legacy. I want Deaf people to trust SLRS.

00:27:02 Tim

Yeah.

00:27:03 Stephanie

And so the question, I guess the globalization is, …

00:27:08 Stephanie

When national companies come in and scoop up interpreters, which they do, most national companies can pay interpreters more than we can because most national companies charge a lot more than we can. So, I guess the answer is I try to be better. I try to win over interpreters and Deaf people by being better.

00:27:27 Tim

Yeah. Along that vein, have you seen AI being an impact?

00:27:33 Stephanie

No.

00:27:34 Stephanie

I haven't.

00:27:34 Tim

Good. Okay. [chuckles]

00:27:36 Stephanie

Well, and I say that because, so if I have my 19-year-old right here, he would go, “Oh, mom, yeah, you just don't know.” [Tim: Yeah, yeah] You know, so I have to wonder, I'm an experienced interpreter. [chuckling] And so, you know, I feel like there's times where maybe I miss that kind of stuff.

00:27:59 Stephanie

So, this may be an instance where I'm missing that kind of stuff, but my initial response would be, no, not really.

00:28:07 Tim

Yeah, yeah. [Stephanie chuckling]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:28:14 Tim

Our conversation started out with how a 1990 law in the U.S. is applied to the sign language interpreter profession, allowing for us as the auxiliary aid for accessibility. Many examples where even in the US today, people are...

00:28:38 Tim

unsure how the law applies in reality. Stephanie has become an advocate and SLRS and many other interpreter agencies throughout the U.S. advocate for this law, for the rights of the Deaf community to be heard and have access to the information. 

00:28:59 Tim

And that spreads into how the interpreter agency works by allowing Deaf consumers to have their own preferences for what they want in the interpretation, in the interpreter, as well as the preferences of the interpreters themselves, what situations they're better suited for, who they're suited better to work with, how complaints are handled from the interpreters and from all of the clients…

00:29:29 Tim

including pushing and advocating for the rights of the Deaf community to have a qualified interpreter of their choosing. All of that, over time, builds trust in the agency's ability to provide quality services. And it's on a local level. When you know your consumers, your clients well, if you understand their needs, their culture, their way of life better, that connection, having that close connection to the community, improves services well for everyone.

00:30:05 Tim

We've talked a lot in our profession about how, as we have become more, quote, professional, unquote.

00:30:14 Tim

We tend to pull away from the Deaf community. We've become more invisible, more rigid in our decision-making, in our professionalism, and therefore we don't have that communication, that interaction, which lessens the trust between us.

00:30:36 Tim

And so that would be one view on the national or global organizations who are providing services as a business, which is not connected to the local level. And when it comes to the Deaf community or any minority, trust is paramount, not just the service, not just having a warm body interpreter there doing the job, but someone you can feel a connection to.

00:31:05 Tim

And that includes involving the Deaf community, having Deaf interpreters who can more readily have that connection and build that trust. Next time, we'll finish our conversation with Stephanie, but until then, keep calm, keep putting the trust in your interpretations. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:32:05]