IW 187: InterpreTips: In-DEPEND-ent of the Situation

It depends! Really?! I didn't realize that.

When someone asks us what we would do in certain situations, it's hard to break the habit of always saying, "Well, it depends." Today we talk about that. What does it depend on? How do we stop thinking of that phrase for our first (very vague) answer?

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Transcript

IW 187: InterpreTîps: In-DEPEND-ent of the Situation

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim [ONLY TIM SPEAKS IN THIS EPISODE]

And now, the quote of the day by Robin K. Dean, interpreter and researcher.

00:00:41

I'm paraphrasing what she has said many times.

00:00:44

“We must abandon the notion that ‘it depends’ is a sufficient and effective response to articulating the complexities in interpreting work and decision-making.”

00:01:00

Well, that is a mouthful, but it tells the story of all of us.

00:01:05

Every time someone asks, what would you do if, and we always first think, well, it depends, because every situation is different, even if it's the same scenario with the same people, it's still a different situation.

00:01:22

But the answer ‘it depends’ is not enough.

00:01:25

It's not an answer because it doesn't say what it is.

00:01:32

What are the variables that we think it depends on?

00:01:36

We should start thinking about our answers in that context.

00:01:42

If this, I would do this.

00:01:45

We know what the variables we're thinking of.

00:01:49

So, in today's episode, let's talk about that.

00:01:52

Let's look at what variables we think about that influence our decision making and how we create our interpretations.

00:02:04

Thinking of these things helps us teach each other.

00:02:08

It actually supports the people who are asking these questions, because then we actually give a real answer, an answer that means something that they can take and use.

00:02:21

That's what we need.

00:02:23

True help, true support, connecting all of us in interpreting.

00:02:28

So, let's talk about it.

00:02:30

I mean, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:02:38

So, I'm driving down the road.

00:02:39

I'm looking left and right because I know that a lot of the students walking to school, they sometimes run out across the street just to make a shortcut.

00:02:50

So, I'm driving with caution and I'm also checking my speed because I know there's a school speed limit nearby.

00:02:58

There isn't a sign this way, but on the other side of the street, there's a sign.

00:03:04

So, I'm driving carefully and I pull into the back of the school.

00:03:09

There's a large parking lot where a lot of the students park.

00:03:13

And there's a tiny little parking lot over here.

00:03:15

I turn into that one.

00:03:17

It has a sign there that says, for teachers and visitors.

00:03:22

And I pull up in there, I park, and I get out, and I start walking, following the line of students as they're walking towards the back of the school.

00:03:31

There's a door that's propped open with a brick.

00:03:34

But as I'm going that direction, I see a couple of teachers that I recognize, and they're walking a different direction around the school.

00:03:42

So, I turn and follow them instead.

00:03:45

We get up to the side of the school and one of the teachers takes out a security card and puts it up against the electronic key.

00:03:53

It buzzes and the door pops open.

00:03:57

One of them turns and looks at me with a puzzled look.

00:04:00

They don't recognize me.

00:04:01

The other one says, “Oh, hi, Tim.”

00:04:03

And that's when they both let me in through this doorway.

00:04:07

The teacher asks me a few questions about whether or not I'm going to the game later that week or not.

00:04:14

And I say, “I'm not sure yet. We'll see.”

00:04:17

They leave to the right.

00:04:19

I go down the other hallway, walking past the security guard.

00:04:23

I nod to him, give a little wave and bump into another teacher who walks with me a little ways and tells me a little bit about what is going to be different today in his classroom.

00:04:34

We part ways and I walk up the stairs, knowing that I need to walk on the left side because there's always students who come down the middle of the staircase rather quickly, pushing and shoving, so I stay on the outside.

00:04:47

I get into the hallway, I find a column that's empty, because there's a lot of students sitting on the floor or standing around in little clicks, little groups doing their gossip.

00:05:00

Some of them have some music going and they're dancing.

00:05:03

And I stand over, lean up against the wall, look down at my phone, and wait.

00:05:09

I'm standing across from the door of the classroom where I start the day.

00:05:14

Some students walk by and say, “Hey, how you doing, Mr. Interp-pre-ter?”

00:05:19

I nod or I wave.

00:05:21

Then the teacher opens the door and walks back inside the classroom.

00:05:26

Students file in.

00:05:27

And I see the teacher walk over or sit down at her desk.

00:05:31

I then walk into the classroom.

00:05:33

I grab a chair that's over in the corner and I pull it over to the front of the room, and sit down casually, saying hello to the teacher, having the small talk, the chit-chat.

00:05:44

“Yeah, there was a lot of traffic driving here. Yeah.”

00:05:46

I set my water bottle down on the ground, make sure my phone is only on vibrate.

00:05:51

I then put it in my pocket as more students come in and sit down and I see.

00:05:56

There are conversations going on, so I interpret gossip about one student who got kicked out of school because they were in a fight at the game last week.

00:06:05

Turns out the teachers did catch them.

00:06:08

Someone else mentions they're worried about a test in history today.

00:06:13

Someone else mentions a joke from yesterday.

00:06:16

And then the bell rings, and the teacher scoots back their chair, stands up, comes over, stands next to me to start the class.

00:06:25

I adjust my seating a little, sitting up straight, and the day starts.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:06:35

Well, that was a typical morning one year when I was substituting, well, I say substituting, but interpreting for an entire year at a school in the U.S.

00:06:49

I had other interpreting jobs throughout the day, throughout the week, throughout the year, but I had this job on a regular basis as well.

00:06:58

Sounds like a pretty boring story, but let's analyze it.

00:07:02

Why am I even telling you this?

00:07:04

Well, as interpreters, some of you probably thought, yeah, that's typical.

00:07:08

Yeah, I know that.

00:07:09

I feel that.

00:07:10

I understand what you're doing.

00:07:12

But there are aspects of it that I think we need to talk about, especially for those who don't have this experience and for those who are new to the interpreting profession.

00:07:23

There are several decisions that I made throughout the entire morning that were decisions based on my experience, based on ethical choices, practical choices, based on consequences that I knew could happen.

00:07:40

And they are all decisions based on things that we aren't always taught in our training programs or at our other jobs.

00:07:49

These are things that we learn in our daily life, especially if they're connected to interpreting.

00:07:55

When we experience them ourselves, we can apply them to the interpreting profession in a way that makes sense, in a way that we can do the right thing.

00:08:06

Because in our profession, we usually say, “Well, it just depends.”

00:08:14

But we don't always talk about what it depends on.

00:08:16

We talk in vague generalities or “what ifs”.

00:08:21

When in reality there are concrete examples of what we should do and what we shouldn't do and why we should do them, when we should do them, we should talk more about the concrete examples to help us understand better what to do.

00:08:37

For me, working in the U.S., we have to drive a lot, especially where there isn't public transportation, or at least reliable public transportation, and that's most of the U.S.

00:08:50

If I'm going somewhere, I have to figure out where it is I will park.

00:08:54

And that's the first thing.

00:08:56

I want to be on time, so I want to find a place to park, which means I want to get there before the parking lot is full.

00:09:05

Plus, I need to know which parking lot is the one I should be parking in.

00:09:10

So that typical day that I just described, the beginning of it was because I had already done my research.

00:09:17

The first time I arrived, I parked in the most general parking spot, the huge parking lot where the students also parked.

00:09:27

But I went to the office of the school and asked them directly, “Is there a parking spot for visitors, for those who are working here at the school, which is more appropriate for me to park in?”

00:09:39

And that's how I knew where to park.

00:09:42

I also learned which entrances I should be using, and at what time.

00:09:48

I learned, of course, the main entrance on the opposite side of the school where the parking lots were, which would take me a lot longer to walk around the school.

00:09:58

Or I could walk in where the students come in and wait in the same large waiting area that they were waiting with a few teachers, which is a little more crowded, takes a lot longer time for me to get through and into the place where I start working.

00:10:14

I also knew that there was a teacher's entrance, but that required a security card.

00:10:20

But with that knowledge in my mind, I knew that if I was in the parking lot early enough, the teachers would be parking there.

00:10:28

I could follow the teachers, especially the ones who knew me, and they would let me in to the teacher's entrance, which allowed me to go in quicker, less crowds, only with the teachers…

00:10:40

…not being involved with navigating through a crowd of students, which could have other possible consequences.

00:10:48

Because as an adult who's not a teacher, in the middle of high school students, their ages ranged from, say, 8th graders up to 12th graders, for me, as a non-teacher, it's just simpler for me to follow and walk with the teachers.

00:11:06

So, I could make that split second decision to change the entrance I was going to use by seeing a teacher that I knew that I could follow in.

00:11:17

And not only that, but I also spoke with them, had a short conversation.

00:11:22

That small talk actually allowed me a closer relationship with that teacher and the teacher who didn't know me.

00:11:30

So that teacher would then know me the next time.

00:11:33

So, if it was that teacher, they would remember me because there was more of a conversation to help them remember me, to allow me into the door the next time.

00:11:44

And then once inside, I had a little more conversation.

00:11:47

I nodded and waved to the security guard, giving them a little bit more memory hooks to remember me that I am supposed to be there and I know where I'm going.

00:12:00

And then another conversation with another teacher.

00:12:03

All of those connections help the security guard and the other teachers see me interacting with their colleagues, their peers, which shows them that someone they know and trust trusts me, so I am in the right place, and in the future they would be more helpful if I needed something from them.

00:12:24

It also showed students around that I was connected with the adults in the room.

00:12:31

I then knew how to go up the stairs without being in touch with the students.

00:12:36

Basically, I knew how to get up the stairs quickly rather than trying to fuss through the crowd.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:12:43

Do you know the meaning of the word support?

00:12:46

Well, there's many.

00:12:47

Supporting me means telling someone about this podcast, sharing it, giving me a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

00:12:56

Or you can support me by donating at Buy Me A Coffee to help me pay for the things that make this possible.

00:13:02

So, pick a way, share, rate and review, or donate.

00:13:06

Pick one, just one.

00:13:07

Or if you really want to support, pick all three.

00:13:11

Thank you.

00:13:11

Now that's the true meaning of support.

00:13:15

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:13:19

Once I was in the hallway, knowing exactly the layout of the school because sometimes stairways and elevators and hallways can get confusing.

00:13:30

But I had the experience of being in this place on a regular basis because the first time I came, I went to the office, introduced myself, got a map of the school, asked for specific directions, specific timeline, where is it I need to be.

00:13:48

I was using every possible way I could to help me make decisions on the things that it depends on.

00:13:57

So, when I have solutions for various situations, whenever it depends comes up in my interpreting, I have a solution for that.

00:14:09

I don't have to just say, well, I might do, I would say, yes, I will do this because of this, this, this.

00:14:19

But I made it happen by preparing myself, asking the right questions, being in the right place.

00:14:27

That's my preparation.

00:14:29

Not just for the material that I'm interpreting, but the professional business preparation in practice.

00:14:37

Being in the hallway, I did not initiate, I did not start the interaction with the students.

00:14:45

I would acknowledge them, say hello to them, but I stayed in my own bubble until the opportunity was opened by the door of the classroom.

00:14:56

At that point, I then, I don't know if you noticed, but I waited for the students to go in first, again giving space and waiting to see the teacher before walking in.

00:15:09

She sat down at the desk where I could see her from the hallway.

00:15:14

It allowed me to go in and, in her view, so she can see and acknowledge me and introducing myself again.

00:15:23

And then I reached for the chair that was in the corner because I knew it was there. Because?

00:15:30

You guessed it.

00:15:31

I'd been there before and had asked for a chair to sit at the front with them to be in the right place because I knew what would happen in the classroom because I asked, “Are you going to be at the board?”

00:15:45

“Are you going to be in groups?”

00:15:46

“Are you going to be walking around?”

00:15:48

All of those questions helped me prepare before I started interpreting.

00:15:54

And once in the classroom, did you notice that I was interpreting not the classroom lecture or teachings, but yes, the conversations in the room.

00:16:05

And I remember picking conversations that I could hear out of the throng of conversations from all of the students.

00:16:14

I picked out particular ones about the game last week, about someone who had gotten in trouble and why and what these people thought of that.

00:16:22

Each of those little conversations I interpreted because I knew from the past that this was something that had already been talked about.

00:16:32

And so, I was continuing the conversation.

00:16:35

giving new information that might be needed or wanted, for example, the history test later in the day.

00:16:42

Instead of me as an interpreter reminding a student that, hey, don't forget, there's a test today, I use the conversations for what they're actually used for.

00:16:53

One student telling everyone else that they're worried about a test, and that automatically reminds the other students, oh yeah, I forgot about the test.

00:17:02

or for them to remember to prepare for it.

00:17:05

It's that information that surrounds us every day that we need to remember to give and acknowledge just in case it's needed because it's there and we hear it and therefore it should be interpreted.

00:17:19

But when there's multiple conversations going on at the same time, we need to decide what is truly needed to be interpreted because we can't do it all.

00:17:30

That's where our foresight, our prediction from the past, knowing what conversations have already been had, what was important to this client in the past, or what we know is important for the future of this client, we can pick and choose what is appropriate to interpret.

00:17:52

Even if it's just a little bit…

00:17:54

Maybe we don't know if it's important or not, but we'll give a little bit of that information enough to see if, oh, more information on this subject is needed.

00:18:05

So, we will bring that and expand it.

00:18:07

Again, it's giving the power back to the client.

00:18:11

We find some things that may be this, may be this, maybe this, I don't know.

00:18:15

It all depends.

00:18:17

So, I will give this little bits and pieces of these and see which one is the most important.

00:18:24

And then I will work on that because now I know what it depends on.

00:18:28

The interest lies here, not here, so, this is the important thing.

00:18:33

No longer do I have to think “it depends” because I know what it depends on.

00:18:39

Therefore, I don't need to think of the others that it might depend on.

00:18:45

And lastly, there was a subtle change when I, as an interpreter, knew I was about to officially start interpreting something important from the authority in the room, the teacher, the person who would start the conversation, start the important information, who had the authority to start and stop everything.

00:19:10

So, I changed from more relaxed, casual chit-chat interpreting, or at least what seemed like it was casual chit-chat, matching the tone of the students.

00:19:22

Now I need to match the tone of the authority figure, the teacher, who's also changed from sitting down at their desk to standing up, making a note of pushing their chair back, making a sound to get the student's attention.

00:19:39

They hear that.

00:19:40

They think, “Oh, the teacher's getting up.”

00:19:42

Then they pushed the chair in.

00:19:44

The students started sitting down.

00:19:47

Because of that context of the authority standing up, they knew how to act.

00:19:54

They knew what their actions depended on… The authority figure.

00:19:59

They stood up.

00:20:00

I changed my posture to indicate this is someone new talking with authority.

00:20:07

I gave that same movement in my body of changing my posture that the chair gave and the movement of the teacher gave to the students.

00:20:18

The students now heard that my client saw me change my posture as the teacher moved.

00:20:26

All of that together was an interpretation before I actually signed anything.

00:20:32

So, my story was really a prologue to me interpreting in a school for the day.

00:20:40

Everything I needed to do as a professional, businessperson, interpreter, who is interacting with all of the people that I need to interact with, that influence my work, and whom I influence their work as well.

00:20:58

It was coming together, cooperating, collaborating, making it work, and making everyone comfortable with me being there because we – are – …there.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:21:16

My story was quite short without all the “oohs and ahhs” and “really you did that?”

00:21:23

Perhaps I'll save those stories for another day.

00:21:26

And whether or not you have worked in a country where schools have this type of operation or not, you can still see the decisions I took to get rid of the idea of “it depends”, “I won't do this or I won't do that.”, “Well, maybe I could do this.”

00:21:43

All of that theory, that vagueness goes away when we plan, when we prepare, when we ask the right questions of the right people, and we make the participants, the clients, and everyone around feel comfortable with us.

00:22:01

Comfortable seeing us, comfortable having us in the room, seeing us as a person with them.

00:22:08

Using our knowledge of what it depends on, if we think of those things and we have all of those “whats” listed, we know what questions to ask.

00:22:20

All of those questions we need to ask so we have less and less situations where we say, I'm not sure what to do because it depends on this or that.

00:22:32

Well, if we have less of that because we know more of that situation, the easier it's going to be for us to be comfortable ourselves and everyone else in the situation will be comfortable with us being there. And our interpretation will become easier because we have a lot more answers.

00:22:54

We understand the goal and the atmosphere and the attitudes of everyone involved.

00:23:00

That makes our job so much more fun and relaxing and enjoyable.

00:23:06

In fact, every day that I was working that job, I left there with a free mind.

00:23:12

No clutter, no worry about, “Oh, did I do this?”

00:23:16

“What did they think of this?”

00:23:18

None of that was there because I had already done my work.

00:23:21

Never once thinking, “Well, it depends”, but rather thinking, “Well, it depends on this or this.”

00:23:28

And I knew what this and this were.

00:23:31

All I had to do was ask or observe.

00:23:35

That experience comes not just from that job, but all the jobs I did before, my life, working in different places, living in different places, that's where our experience comes from.

00:23:52

That's where our preparation comes from.

00:23:55

Asking the right questions.

00:23:57

Because we know from our own experience in these different contexts what things depend on.

00:24:04

Get the answers first.

00:24:05

The answers actually give us the answers to the decisions that we want to make.

00:24:10

There's no guessing or worrying about it.

00:24:14

That's what makes interpreting so much better.

00:24:18

So, until next time, keep calm, keep asking the questions for your interpretation.

00:24:25

I'll see you next week.

00:24:27

Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:25:03]