IW 186: InterpreComedy: Facial Expressions that Need to be Hidden

Thank you, thank you sooooo much. That's not helpful.

The signed language interpreting profession is absolutely wonderful. However, we have some unique situations and behaviors that other professions do not deal with. So, let's have some fun talking about them!

And if you listen carefully, you'll hear some reasons why we handle it the way we do.

Transcript

IW 186: InterpreComedy: Facial Expressions that Need to be Hidden

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim [ONLY TIM SPEAKS IN THIS EPISODE]

And now, the quote of the day by Every Good Parent Everywhere.

00:00:41

“If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.”

00:00:47

So that quote is something we should all take to heart, something we, as interpreters, find precious for our ethics.

00:00:56

Because interpreters hear many things that make our eyes roll, that make our facial expressions need to be instantly hidden.

00:01:06

That's right.

00:01:07

All those things in our heads that come to mind that we bite our lip or we bite our tongue to keep ourselves from saying what we really think.

00:01:18

Wonderful people that we work with, great clients, sometimes say the strangest things or they think the weirdest things, and we have to hold in those thoughts.

00:01:32

That's why I think interpreters don't say as much as we normally would, because we're trying to be nice.

00:01:39

Maybe that's the reason. Huh.

00:01:41

I will let you be the judge in today's episode.

00:01:44

[loudly whispers] So, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:51

So, let's start with something… neutral.

00:01:55

Something we all have to deal with almost every day, every week when we meet someone new and they ask us, so what do you do?

00:02:05

Yep, every one of you have an image in your mind.

00:02:09

Again, I have to tell the entire story of what we do.

00:02:13

And normally, for most people, that's all about telling about the work and how it's good or if it's difficult or how busy you are, or how wonderful it is.

00:02:27

But most people (don't have questions) they are basically asking, why?

00:02:33

Why do you do that?

00:02:34

Why can't they just do this?

00:02:36

It's questions that actually try to say, well, your job's not worth anything, or if everyone just did this, you wouldn't have a job, so why do you get paid for this?

00:02:49

It's as though they don't understand that a job can have purpose and meaning, and you can get paid for it.

00:02:56

So, every time they ask, all the things that go through our heads, the things we shouldn't say, I guess that would be the sarcastic things – we try not to say them out loud.

00:03:08

What do you think of?

00:03:09

What's going through your head when they ask?

00:03:13

So, this is the checklist that goes through my head as soon as I meet someone new.

00:03:19

Actually, before I even get there, to the party, to the event, in my head is, okay, we're meeting new people.

00:03:27

That means I need to get my checklist of answers ready.

00:03:31

I'm going to try to consolidate them again in one statement, so I don't have a bombardment of all the questions of, why isn't sign language universal?

00:03:42

Well, why don't they just do that?

00:03:44

Yes, but why is it different in every country?

00:03:47

Can't they just read lips?

00:03:49

Why can't they just have captioning?

00:03:52

Well, don't they have technology for that?

00:03:54

What about those wonderful gloves that everyone's seeing on Facebook?

00:03:59

Well, we have AI now.

00:04:01

We can just use an avatar.

00:04:03

Well, can't you just sit at home and do it on your computer?

00:04:07

So, what do we answer to that?

00:04:09

How do we answer to that, [chuckles] compared to what we actually think?

00:04:13

What we actually think is… seriously?

00:04:16

Okay, you have a high-tech job, you have a higher education degree, maybe even a PhD, and you do not understand the simple idea of different languages and how they develop in different countries.

00:04:33

Someone who can't hear won't be able to hear all of the sounds and therefore mimic them or even be able to see what a mouth looks like when it's making sounds, because all the sounds are from the lips, right?

00:04:48

The things we have to listen to and try to navigate without rolling our eyes.

00:04:53

We have so much patience.

00:04:55

It's a wonderful thing for interpreters.

00:04:58

We learn patience early on, and then we learn we have to keep building that patience because over time, we have to think of ways to answer those questions without actually answering the way we want to now.

00:05:16

Yes, of course. Every language should be universal, shouldn't it?

00:05:19

Oh, no, you don't want that.

00:05:21

You don't want to learn just English.

00:05:24

How did you get into your job?

00:05:27

For me, it's all about when someone says, “Hello, so what do you do here?”

00:05:32

What I actually hear is, I heard you're a sign language interpreter and I want to interrogate you with every possible argument to say that your job is invalid.

00:05:45

It doesn't make sense.

00:05:46

Why would anyone do this job?

00:05:48

It's charity work.

00:05:49

It's for those poor disabled people.

00:05:51

Why would you do that?

00:05:52

You don't make any money at it.

00:05:54

It's just talking.

00:05:57

So, for me, it's all about, well, do I answer them the way I want?

00:06:02

Or do I just say, bless your heart?

00:06:05

This is the way it is and let me explain it to you on a kindergarten level so that you will understand and maybe come around to comprehending what it is I do for a living.

00:06:17

But I know they really won't ever understand.

00:06:20

It doesn't make a clear case for them and I understand why.

00:06:26

They just don't have any experience with it.

00:06:29

Those that work with Deaf at their employment at their conferences, in organizations, they start to understand a little bit more.

00:06:41

They realize, oh, they're normal people, they just use a different language, and I see how they communicate now, so yeah, I understand it a little bit better.

00:06:50

But in the beginning, they have no clue.

00:06:52

Absolutely no clue if they have no experience with it.

00:06:56

So, we do have to have patience.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:07:04

Okay, we started with the ‘easy, neutral, people who are not connected to us’ topic.

00:07:10

Now let's talk about what every new interpreter does, what every interpreting student does, and that's watching interpreters working and having an opinion about the interpretation or how that interpreter is behaving.

00:07:27

All of those wonderful opinions.

00:07:30

How do we deal with that?

00:07:31

Over time, we get better at it.

00:07:33

I mean, not using those opinions out loud.

00:07:36

But as an interpreting student or a new interpreter, sometimes we've learned so much that we believe that we know better than the interpreters who are working.

00:07:47

We look at the sign language that they're using and say, oh, I wouldn't have used that sign.

00:07:52

Why are they using that sign again?

00:07:55

They keep looking at the speaker.

00:07:58

Why do they keep swaying back and forth?

00:08:02

They're fingerspelling way too fast.

00:08:05

They lost that information.

00:08:07

They dropped it.

00:08:08

They dropped the information.

00:08:09

I saw that, but they didn't do it.

00:08:11

I heard this, but they didn't do it.

00:08:14

They're stuttering.

00:08:15

Can you hear that?

00:08:16

They're stuttering.

00:08:17

They didn't finish that sentence.

00:08:19

They didn't catch the fingerspelling.

00:08:21

They didn't catch the fingerspelling.

00:08:23

They didn't catch the fingerspelling.

00:08:25

Wait, they gave the fingerspelling word later. Huh.

00:08:30

But they didn't do it the first time.

00:08:32

Can you believe she's wearing that skirt?

00:08:36

Oh, look at her fingernails.

00:08:38

Oh, look at that hair.

00:08:40

I mean, come on.

00:08:42

Seriously, did they just interrupt and ask them for clarification?

00:08:47

That was so easy.

00:08:48

How could they not understand that?

00:08:51

Why are they waiting so long?

00:08:52

Come on, start.

00:08:55

Oh, wow.

00:08:55

Why aren't they interrupting?

00:08:57

He wants to ask a question and they're not letting him.

00:08:59

What's going on?

00:09:00

Why can't they...

00:09:02

Oh, oh, they finished that and now they're letting the question.

00:09:05

I see.

00:09:06

But they don't understand equal rights.

00:09:10

He signed the bad words.

00:09:14

He just fingerspelled the bad words, but he didn't use the signs.

00:09:18

That's not right.

00:09:20

Have you ever seen that sign before?

00:09:22

Oh, my goodness. They explained that.

00:09:25

Why did they add that information?

00:09:27

They added way too… ugh!

00:09:30

They didn't sign that. They just pointed to the PowerPoint.

00:09:34

There are a lot of things that new interpreters and student interpreters think about, and hopefully they don't actually say it out loud in public.

00:09:44

We've all kind of been there.

00:09:46

I know I have, and I know the other new interpreters I was around, we discussed these things.

00:09:53

Now, part of it is a part of the learning process.

00:09:57

We're understanding that live, real-world interpreting is not like it is in the classroom.

00:10:06

We start to realize that all of the wonderful cookie-cutter boxes of ethics with all the beautiful answers are not set in stone.

00:10:18

We realize that there are so many factors influencing the interpreter that sometimes the decisions have different priorities and the interpreters working like an octopus with many arms flailing about.

00:10:37

And some of those arms are the different decisions that we have to make at different times.

00:10:42

So, for me, having those thoughts of, my goodness, why didn't they do this?

00:10:47

Or I didn't like that sign.

00:10:49

Why did they use that sign?

00:10:50

All of that is the learning process.

00:10:53

So, before I condemn them or myself for having those thoughts, I need to realize it's part of learning, part of the experience, and it's a good thing.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:11:10

Well, let's go a little bit deeper into the inappropriate things we might think.

00:11:16

We've talked about meeting strangers and talking about our job.

00:11:20

We've talked about critiquing other interpreters while they're doing their job.

00:11:25

Now let's talk about [GASPS] our teams.

00:11:30

Get ready.

00:11:31

Sometimes we're working with beautiful teams, wonderful cooperation, almost a mental telepathy of understanding each other.

00:11:42

Those are awesome.

00:11:44

But then there are those teams that just make the job a little more difficult – not necessarily performing the interpretations, but just the tension that's involved or the extra stress that it brings.

00:12:02

Here are just a few of the things that might pop into our head while we're working with a team that's not ideal.

00:12:11

Oh, you're just going to go ahead and introduce us as the team and forget my name altogether. I see.

00:12:21

Oh, you're going to tell them the plan for how we're going to work and where we're going to stand. I forgot whether or not you actually asked me what I thought of this plan. Yeah.

00:12:33

Oh, you're just going to start without telling me when, how, we don't even know our switching time, nothing. You're just okay, you're just starting. Just go right ahead. Oh, and you're also going to interpret for that conversation over there at the same time. So, you're just going to switch back and forth. I'll just sit here and watch you. Yeah?

00:12:55

Okay.

00:12:56

You do realize we're both getting paid to do this, but you're just going to do it all. Okay. All right.

00:13:01

I'll just...

00:13:02

Oh, now you need me to give you a feed.

00:13:05

I'm sorry I wasn't actually listening, but here's what I think it was.

00:13:09

But I'll act like I know exactly... Yeah.

00:13:12

Oh, they didn't like that.

00:13:14

Well, oopsie daisy…[pause]

00:13:16

Oh, you're going to start during my lag time, are you?

00:13:19

Oh, I had two seconds of waiting to understand where this sentence was going, but you just decided to jump right in and start voicing for me.

00:13:29

Yeah.

00:13:30

Okay. Well, I'm glad you got that.

00:13:32

Oh, look, you had to stumble and stutter and change the course of the sentence, didn't you?

00:13:38

But you're acting like it's all good.

00:13:40

Yeah, Okay.

00:13:41

So yeah, you're explaining now that you just misunderstood.

00:13:45

Yeah.

00:13:46

So, if you'd just given yourself the lag time, I was giving myself, you probably would have not had that stumble nor would you have to have explained it.

00:13:55

But now you're good buddies with the hearing person because you laughed it off. That's great.

00:14:02

Oh, you're just not going to feed me.

00:14:05

I asked for, you know, numbers whenever they said a number, several of them at a time.

00:14:11

You know, this is all about accounting and I can't remember ten numbers while also explaining the column, the debit column.

00:14:20

Yeah. And can you just – no. You're just going to give me the total number. That's great.

00:14:27

Oh, okay, we're switching and you decide to just leave.

00:14:32

Okay.

00:14:33

And you put down the notepad that I gave you all those notes for those signs. You didn't read those. No, not at all.

00:14:40

Oh, you're coming back now and switching directly with me without seeing the notes telling you that you're signing the wrong sign for this concept that they already told us what it means and you're still not getting it.

00:14:53

Oh boy.

00:14:55

Here, I'll just feed you. Oh, you're just not taking that. Okay, that's fine. I get it.

00:15:00

No problem.

00:15:01

But you're going the wrong way.

00:15:02

Hey, just stop.

00:15:03

No, that's not, that's not what they, no, that's not what they, oh, now you're just going to ask them.

00:15:08

Yeah, I'm just waving my hand here just to, you know, get rid of these flies in the room.

00:15:13

I'm not trying to get your attention.

00:15:15

I'm like five feet away from you.

00:15:18

And you're just ignoring me.

00:15:20

Okay.

00:15:21

You're just going to ask the speaker.

00:15:22

Let's interrupt the speaker. Yeah. Okay.

00:15:26

But I had the information.

00:15:27

Okay. I'll write that down in the notes. There you go. I'll put a star next to it. Maybe you'll notice it now.

00:15:34

Oh, no, you didn't notice it at all when you sat down. Okay.

00:15:39

Oh, you're feeding me.

00:15:40

And you're making sure I know that.

00:15:42

But actually, what you're feeding me is what I was trying to feed you while ago.

00:15:46

I already know this but thank you so much.

00:15:49

I will look and I'm smiling and I'm nodding at you like, yeah, got it.

00:15:53

And I'm putting it in even though I already had.

00:15:55

I'm just repeating myself.

00:15:56

But that's okay.

00:15:57

You didn't see it when I did it the first time.

00:15:59

Thank you for teaming.

00:16:01

Oh, you did get the materials before.

00:16:05

Oh, two days ago they sent you the PowerPoints and everything.

00:16:10

You know, when we discussed this a day ago, you didn't mention that to me.

00:16:15

I didn't get the PowerPoint.

00:16:17

No, they didn't e-mail me as well.

00:16:20

You didn't, no, they didn't copy me in that.

00:16:23

Normally you can see that in the e-mail.

00:16:24

If you click, you'll see if they have your name and then a plus next to it saying that there are more people, which shows you or indicates that they might have sent it to me and that you can click on that and actually see who they sent it to.

00:16:38

So instead of just guessing or assuming that I got the information, you could have asked, or we could have discussed the materials, and then you would know that I didn't have the materials, but you're more prepared than I am.

00:16:51

That's wonderful.

00:16:52

Oh, but you want me to go first because this is a hard subject.

00:16:56

Really?

00:16:57

Really?

00:16:59

You see my eyes, they're really white.

00:17:01

Yeah, that's because they've rolled back into my head.

00:17:05

Yep, that's the reason.

00:17:07

But I'm standing here.

00:17:08

I'm getting ready to go first because this is a hard subject that you prepared for and I didn't.

00:17:14

Yeah, makes all the sense in the world.

00:17:17

Thank you for teaming.

00:17:19

Okay, so there are, what's the word, “interesting” teams out there.

00:17:25

Wonderful teams that have no clue.

00:17:28

That was sarcasm.

00:17:30

Sometimes I give teams the benefit of the doubt.

00:17:34

They have so much on their mind, they just are assuming maybe that we're all professionals and we can do the job.

00:17:41

That's great.

00:17:42

But a lot of these problems could be solved by just remembering to communicate with each other, respect each other enough to share the emails, to reply to the emails, to discuss whether or not you're getting the emails, meeting ahead of time, and discuss the details of how you want to team: who wants to go first, who has this knowledge or that knowledge, where you're weak, where you need support.

00:18:16

And sometimes that's the same day.

00:18:17

Maybe you get there and you're just not feeling well.

00:18:20

For some reason, your mental awareness is not at the top of its game, and you need support.

00:18:28

Or you know that you need support when people talk about art or they talk about a famous person and their quotes or what have you.

00:18:39

Tell each other what you need, what you're good at, what you're weaker at, because that's what the support is for, to make both of you have an equal share in the responsibility for the interpretation.

00:18:55

And you both learn to not say anything unless it's nice.

00:19:01

And then

00:19:02

You can really say, “Thanks for teaming.”

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:19:07

Wow, listening to the theories, the research from interpreters who have changed the direction of our profession.

00:19:15

From the early days, the history, learning it from the people who lived it.

00:19:19

Listening to interpreters from dozens of different countries around the world and what their working conditions are all about.

00:19:26

How it's the same, how it's different.

00:19:28

Wow, such value.

00:19:30

I mean, who wouldn't want to support that with just

00:19:33

A few cups of coffee.

00:19:34

I mean, it's easy.

00:19:35

You just click on a link, and you buy three, four, five cups of coffee and you're supporting all of these conversations.

00:19:43

Well, that's just a few thoughts coming out of my head.

00:19:45

Thanks for listening.

00:19:46

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:19:50

Now let's talk about the touchy subject of clients.

00:19:56

Clients can really make us roll our eyes, bite our tongues, shake our heads, and just want to leave.

00:20:04

They do so many things that we want to just say, “Thank you for being a client.”

00:20:10

(That was sarcasm if you didn't catch that.)

00:20:14

Some of the things that go through our heads are like, “Really? You're just going to fingerspell as fast as you can and not look at me to see if I actually caught it.”

00:20:23

You're just going to look away from me, no eye contact.

00:20:27

You're just going to keep signing as though I'm catching everything.

00:20:31

Luckily, you're walking back and forth on the stage.

00:20:34

Yeah, and you just treat me as an AI companion because obviously I can see when you're signing over on that end of the stage and this end of the stage. Mm-hmm.

00:20:49

Okay, you changed subjects.

00:20:51

You sure did, but why?

00:20:54

I don't, I don’t know why the slide didn't change.

00:20:57

I'm confused on that, but I understand what you're saying.

00:21:01

But I'm trying to understand what the goal is here.

00:21:04

You didn't give me that yet.

00:21:05

This is not in the materials. You didn't – no.

00:21:10

Oh, you're just going to start with fingerspelling.

00:21:12

About 3 or 4 words right in a row – fingerspelled words.

00:21:16

Yeah, those…

00:21:17

I can say those words.

00:21:19

I just don't know what…

00:21:21

There's no sentence.

00:21:22

There's no verb.

00:21:23

Okay, so you gave me those words, and I can see by the sneaky expression on your face, that little smile you have, you're looking at me thinking, let's see if the interpreter can get this one and see what he does with it. Ha, ha, ha.

00:21:40

Really, that's how you're going to...

00:21:42

Okay, that's great.

00:21:44

Well, I will say those words, you know, and I'm not going to flinch.

00:21:49

I'm not going to shake at all.

00:21:52

In fact, I will wait for a response from the hearing person and maybe I'll understand what you mean from his response.

00:22:02

And then I'll sign it back to you and show you, ‘ha, the interpreter didn't understand, but by golly, it makes sense.’

00:22:14

Yep, interpreters do have some sneaky ways of getting around sneaky clients.

00:22:21

Oh really? You're a teenager, you're in a school, and you want me to yell down the hallway inappropriate things to that other student.

00:22:31

Really? You really want to go there?

00:22:34

Okay, I'll show you. I will do it.

00:22:37

This is a test.

00:22:39

I will also tell everyone that's in earshot that this is not me saying it. I'm ‘just the interpreter.’

00:22:45

Oh, yep, there we go. We're done. See?

00:22:48

I'm an experienced interpreter, not one of those little student interpreters that you think you can pull the wool over my eyes. No, right back at you, boy.

00:22:59

Oh, good. A new speaker.

00:23:01

And you mumble and you haven't realized that you are far away from the microphone and you're just mumbling like this and you just can't understand a word you're saying.

00:23:12

Thank you.

00:23:12

Oh, someone said, can you bring the...

00:23:15

There you go. Bring the microphone up. There you go. Now you can.

00:23:19

Oh, now I can hear clearly that you're mumbling.

00:23:22

It's just louder mumbling.

00:23:25

But luckily, you're talking about some research and I'm looking at the audience and everyone else is kind of looking at their phones or their notes. They're not really paying attention.

00:23:35

I will try my best.

00:23:38

Oh, you don't want to give me the material because it's sensitive material, it's a secret, and you want to surprise the audience with it all?

00:23:45

That's great.

00:23:47

It's going to be a surprise.

00:23:49

Yep, definite surprise if I don't know what it's going to be.

00:23:53

Maybe not the surprise you thought, at least on this side of the room.

00:23:59

Okay, here we go again, you're going to just talk to me, are you, and tell me not to interpret this.

00:24:07

Ahh, great. You're telling me your feelings about the speaker and the speaker's telling me their feelings about you.

00:24:14

Great.

00:24:16

[singing a song] Stuck in the middle with you. Here I am.

00:24:21

(Oh boy.)

00:24:22

Yeah.

00:24:23

They're to the left of me and to the right of me.

00:24:26

And I can't do anything but kind of smile. Uh huh, uh huh….

00:24:33

When other people can't say something that's nice, what does the interpreter do?

00:24:39

Hmm.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:24:45

Okay, I did not go as sarcastic as I normally would in my head, but I think you understand why.

00:24:54

And I didn't repeat myself from other episodes about what people say and what we think about that.

00:25:02

But this time, I want us to think about why those things go through our heads.

00:25:07

Hopefully it's because we know better.

00:25:11

In other words, we know that what they are saying or what they are doing is going to affect our job, or it's inappropriate, so we connect it with the fact that we have high moral and ethical standards that we are following, and we see that others are not.

00:25:29

We also know the most effective way to work in our job, to make things work smoothly, effectively, efficiently, productive, for the benefit of everyone.

00:25:43

And we know when that's not happening.

00:25:45

We also know how to interact appropriately with others.

00:25:51

Using our manners, being polite, being civil, it's also a way for us to point out and reinforce what we already know, which helps us remember how to behave correctly and how to work correctly in the most appropriate manner.

00:26:11

So, the next time someone says one of those catchphrases which makes your eyes roll or makes you shake your head thinking, really? Again?

00:26:20

Think about why those thoughts came to your mind.

00:26:26

It's because you are good at what you do.

00:26:30

You know how to do your job well.

00:26:33

Instead of thinking the other person doesn't know what they're doing, they don't know how to handle their job well, or they are totally inappropriate and insulting.

00:26:44

No, don't, don't, don't say those things.

00:26:47

Think about why it's good that you caught those things, right?

00:26:52

That's so much better, isn't it?

00:26:54

And keep all of these thoughts for the coffee shop after the gig.

00:26:59

So, until next time, keep calm, keep interpreting, only if it's nice.

00:27:06

Wait.

00:27:06

Hmm.

00:27:08

I'll see you next week.

00:27:09

Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:27:48]