IW 185: InterpreTips: I Am Privileged to have the Privilege of Explaining Privilege

What does that even mean?! Don't be mean.

Let's discuss where meaning comes from. How do we choose the meanings we use for our interpretations? Words and signs have multiple meanings. Which do we choose?

I feel privileged to talk about it.

Transcript

IW 185: InterpreTips: I Am Privileged to have the Privilege of Explaining Privilege

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28

Let's start talking... interpreting.

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00:00:34 Tim [ONLY TIM SPEAKS IN THIS EPISODE]

And now, the quote of the day by French author best known for the book The Little Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupery.

00:00:44

“The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.”

00:00:53

Today, we talk a little bit more about meaning.

00:00:57

What is meaning?

00:00:59

How do we express the meaning in our interpretations?

00:01:03

Words, signs, what does it all mean?

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Do we take the dictionary definition?

00:01:09

If the language has a dictionary, hmmm, what is the standard meaning?

00:01:15

But the person using that word or that sign, are they using the standard meaning?

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Do they know the standard meaning?

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Are they native in that language and therefore know all of the meanings of that word or that sign?

00:01:29

Huh.

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What do words mean to us?

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What do I mean by all that?

00:01:34

Hmm.

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I think we need to get started.

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You know what I mean?

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:43

Words have meanings, but where do the meanings come from?

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Let's take the example of the word privilege.

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Imagine what that means.

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Privilege.

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Have you a definition in mind?

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Can you see an example of it being used?

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Do you see multiple examples of it?

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What is it that you first thought of?

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I think it depends on your background, who you are, how well you know English, and your own experience, not to mention your culture.

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For me, I grew up learning that the word privilege was when someone was showing gratitude.

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In the example, I am privileged to be here today.

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It is a privilege to know her.

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It is a privilege to go to this school.

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However, there are other examples today that are more prevalent.

00:02:40

You hear them more often, and usually that's what comes to mind first over the last 10 years or so, talking about privilege in a negative connotation.

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That has spread more readily in our culture of trying to respect and tolerate those that are different from ourselves.

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But as interpreters, we need to remember, and we have the privilege of knowing that words have multiple meanings, and we have to remember where those meanings come from.

00:03:16

It's not necessarily from the dictionary, but it's how they're used, who uses those words, why they are using those words, where they're using it, and with whom they're using it.

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That's how the meanings are created – by the user, and within those minds of those who hear the word.

00:03:39

That's why I ask you, what do you hear when you first hear those words?

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Hopefully, we hear multiple meanings.

00:03:48

But I would challenge us to think, what was the first thing that came to mind when we heard a certain word?

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And ask yourself, why?

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Have we been conditioned to think of a word that has this meaning foremost?

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This is the most important meaning of the word?

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Because if we do that, all those other meanings sink lower and lower and lower in our toolkit, and it's harder to retrieve them then.

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We need to start thinking outside of what is standard, the standard meaning of a word.

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Because that's how we get into the trap of thinking – this sign means this word.

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This word means this sign.

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Because we start thinking “one word, one sign”, they mean the same.

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And we forget that they're concepts that are being represented by these lexical items, this sign or this word.

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They have multiple meanings and those meanings change and are created in the moment by the people using them.

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They're not officially set in stone.

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They are not codified like linguists are prone to say.

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The language is codified.

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Therefore, sign language must be codified as well, and you have to have a dictionary and you have to have it official because these are the meanings of these signs and it's…

00:05:15

It's then, when we get in the mindset of this is the true way this should be, not necessarily the experts who are setting it up, those of us who are in the field, the linguists, the interpreters, the translators, we all kind of know or should remember that it's fluid.

00:05:36

Language becomes useful in the moment.

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And it changes in the discourse.

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The problem is everyone around us listening to our language, they have set in stone, they have codified in their mind that language is language.

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You don't change it, it's standardized, it's official, and therefore, why not do the same thing with a signed language?

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Because in their mind, language is spoken.

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And so, they think,

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We have a dictionary that has the official definitions. We have the official grammar rules with some exceptions or a lot of exceptions in the case of English.

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Signed language…

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Oh, that's why they get so excited about having a dictionary.

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Now we can prove that it's a language and we can have it standardized and everyone will be signing it the same way.

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But that comes from a privileged mindset.

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I have a dictionary.

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I've learned my language from the early days of school.

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I've learned how to write it properly.

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I've learned how to make the grammar correctly according - to - the - code.

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But in reality, we all know that that does not happen.

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In a conversation, people change and can change it.

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in multiple ways, which is how we get poetry and prose and lyrics to a song.

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You can change the meaning subtly by the context, by which words you reference, by what images you reference.

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So let me go back to the example of privilege.

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The latest meaning of privilege that is being used more often is talked about in the context of discrimination or unknown biases.

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A wealthy person may make a comment that, “Oh, you want to go grab a bite to eat at this five-star Michelin restaurant? I've heard it's really good.”

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And the person who doesn't quite have as much money looks at the restaurant and thinks, yeah, if I take out a mortgage on my house, I can do that.

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But the rich person…

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Because they have so much privilege, they don't even think about the price.

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They just think about, it's a wonderful experience.

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Or the person that says, let's go to this restaurant and I just sit down and ask the waiter, yes, I want this wonderful dish, but can you please exchange this for this and take this out?

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I really don't want this.

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I would rather have this.

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And the person who's local is looking at the dish and thinking, no, this dish is only this dish if you have rice with it, not pasta. Why are you substituting that? That's not normal.

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And the fact that you think you have the right to change it shows that you come from a privileged place where you can get what you want.

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And it's okay in your culture to just totally change everything.

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And you're insulting the chef because you think you know this dish better and it's going to be better if it's this way.

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That's a type of privilege.

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So, in one sentence, that same person can say, I feel so privileged to have traveled to this wonderful culture and see the beautiful people, but the people around this person can see how privileged they are based on how they behave and act.

00:09:15

And now I've given you two meanings for the word privileged in the same context.

00:09:20

It's negative, but then there's also positive.

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So, when does our privilege in the negative sense change?

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How does it change without us doing anything?

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In other words, without changing our views and so forth, how does the privilege become a non-privilege?

00:09:41

I don't think I'm saying that correctly.

00:09:43

Let me give you the example.

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As a hearing person, I have a privilege in the hearing world compared to a deaf person.

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So, if I go to a deaf club where it's all deaf, and of course, little code is running around, how much privilege do I have now?

00:10:02

My privilege could be seen as nonexistent.

00:10:06

My language may not be fluent enough to be a part of all the activities, all of the conversations.

00:10:14

In fact, some may shun me because I am a hearing person.

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Very similar to how I may be shunned in certain areas because of my skin color.

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While my privilege may be there within a system where I am the majority, when I now become the minority, does my privilege change?

00:10:35

Does it?

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Or does it become different in different contexts?

00:10:40

And is it almost sarcastic to say, I feel privileged to be here with all of you if I am in the minority, the language minority, the cultural minority, what have you?

00:10:53

And how does meaning change when there's two people from the same culture, from the same linguistic background, the same ethnic background, hmm, when they talk about privilege, how has it changed?

00:11:07

Or are they not using it in the same way at all?

00:11:10

Maybe they're just saying it's a privilege to be here.

00:11:13

And then we also have to think about intent.

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When we're talking about meanings of words, we have to think about the person's intent.

00:11:20

Because as interpreters, we're about communication.

00:11:24

Someone doesn't always mean to say one thing, especially if it's not their native language.

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They may say something, and if I know this is not their native language,

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I know they do not mean to insult.

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They just perhaps have bad grammar skills, or they don't have the vocabulary that they want to use, and therefore I have to interpret it in a way that they intended, which is where clarification comes in.

00:11:52

As a translator, that's much easier because you have a whole lot more time to research it and understand it.

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Whereas as an interpreter, we have to make time for clarification, or we have to make that split second decision based on everything we already know, what is this person's intention, and interpret accordingly.

00:12:17

Now you know all of this.

00:12:19

I hope as an interpreter, in your experience, you already know that we have to realize what a person's goals are, what their intent is,

00:12:29

how they behave towards others, and therefore we can see what the meanings are that they are creating with each other while they're having a conversation.

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And that's the beauty of it, the absolute beauty.

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We want to be able to understand the conversation's intentions, their goals, their behaviors.

00:12:54

We need to be able to analyze those things more and more in-depth.

00:12:59

The more information we have about people and what they want to talk about, the clues we get from their body language, all of that helps us get rid of the language.

00:13:10

What does that mean?

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:13:11

Do you know the meaning of the word support?

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Well, there's many.

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Supporting me means telling someone about this podcast, sharing it, giving me a review, on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

00:13:25

Or you can support me by donating at Buy Me A Coffee to help me pay for the things that make this possible.

00:13:32

So, pick a way, share, rate and review, or donate.

00:13:35

Pick one, just one.

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Or if you really want to support, pick all three.

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Thank you.

00:13:40

Now that's the true meaning of support.

00:13:44

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:13:49

Whenever we're trying to learn what someone is saying, we need to get rid of the language.

00:13:53

Now, the language helps us, gives us the foundational clues about what they're trying to say, or rather, I should say, what they're trying to mean, because the meaning...

00:14:06

changes within the discourse.

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As we already know, the meaning changes with the context.

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Who's there?

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Where are they?

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What culture are they a part of?

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What country are they sitting in?

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What is their language background, their educational background?

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What is their heart?

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I go with the assumption that all people are really nice.

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They just don't know how to express themselves sometimes.

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And when I go with that thought first,

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I can then add to that meaning of who this person is as I hear them, as I see them interacting with others.

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And then I know I don't have to have an exact sign for every word or phrase that they are using.

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I can use my own interpretation based on what I see they are meaning.

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And if I get lost,

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They're right there to ask.

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Because I know when I use an interpreter, I want the interpreter to ask me if they're not sure what I mean.

00:15:14

Because many times, well, almost in every conversation, we can be misunderstood.

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That's why a lot of us talk and talk and talk and talk, [LIGHT CHUCKLING] because we want to make sure that we are clear, because we can't get out every meaning clearly fast enough.

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So, we have to say more to clarify what we just said.

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And sometimes as interpreters, that means we're repeating ourselves in different words to help with the meaning of what we want to say.

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Because sometimes words and signs just aren't enough.

00:15:50

But with sign language, we can layer the meanings, the multiple meanings together to make a real, true, new meaning that has those layers, the complexity that a linear language has difficulty doing.

00:16:08

That's why we love metaphors.

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That's why we love idioms.

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That's why we love sound bites of slang.

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It's why memes are so popular.

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Because memes, well, first they're a picture, and they have multiple meanings layered on.

00:16:26

It's similar to cooking.

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You don't just give one spice to give a flavor, but you layer on different flavors that enhance each other, that give a depth to the flavor of the dish.

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And those flavors come out at different moments as you're eating it.

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A wonderful dish like that is similar to a wonderful interpretation with the layers of meaning coming out.

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That's why we love certain speakers.

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It's like, wow, he is a great orator because he can create the meaning for us in such a vivid way, such a deep message.

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It's delivered correctly.

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It's delivered in a way that it impacts us so that we're not bored.

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It's not a monotone, but it has meaning and depth that doesn't just hit our ears or our eyes, but also it is a mental stimulus of making us think a little bit beyond the words, beyond the initial meaning.

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That's what we want to look for as interpreters.

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Even someone who's not a great orator, we still need to think, why is this person saying this, even though it sounds so simple?

00:17:48

Hmm. Well, I hope you get my meaning.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:17:55

As interpreters, we are privileged.

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We are privileged to see and be a part of the communities where we work.

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We're privileged to have learned the languages that we know.

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And we're privileged to understand what someone means, sometimes even more than they know they mean, or more than they realize what they've said.

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That's a huge privilege and a huge power.

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So, we're privileged not only to know certain things and understand certain things, but we are also privileged to have the power to apply that knowledge and apply those understandings to our interpretation, which will also create new meaning for the rest of the conversation that we will be interpreting.

00:18:47

That's where it gets difficult.

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That's where we see dilemmas, because we might change the conversation in a way that only we understand, but the others are following.

00:18:59

Did we use our power for good or bad?

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Did we use our power intentionally or unintentionally and therefore change the meaning and the direction of the conversation when that's not what the clients intended?

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That's a lot of privilege.

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Luckily, we know all that.

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Now what do we do with it?

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What do you do with it?

00:19:22

What can we do with it?

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What should we do with it?

00:19:25

Well, while you think about that, keep calm, keep interpreting with your privilege in mind.

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I'll see you next week.

00:19:35

Take care now.

00:19:46

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:20:13]