IW 181: Interview Jiri Janecek Part 3: Breaking the Rules OR What the Cook Saw

"You gotta keep 'em separated!"

We're still in the Czech Republic. Jirka details the first main goal of the Chamber of Czech Sign Language Interpreters. He takes us back to the connections at Charles University and the individuals there and abroad that helped evolved what Chamber has become. He gives us insight into the unique story of how Chamber was established the same year as the first Czech Deaf - controlled organization, Pevnost. And we talk about even more. Enjoy some history.

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Transcript

IW 181: Interview Jiri Janecek Part 3: Breaking the Rules OR What the Cook Saw

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by Bertrand Piccard, Swiss explorer and psychiatrist.

00:00:42 Tim

“The pioneering spirit is less about thinking up new ideas as ridding ourselves of dogmas and habits that hold us captive in thinking.”

00:00:55 Tim

This quote definitely connects to today's episode.

00:00:59 Tim

Jirka, the Czech Sign Language Interpreter, will tell us more about the first goals of the Chamber of Czech Sign Language Interpreters and how it felt to be at the beginning of something big.

00:01:15 Tim

He'll tell us about the connections with outside interpreters, with Charles University.

00:01:20 Tim

He'll speak of how he searched for the common rules, the common parts of sign language interpreting that is within all of our situational work.

00:01:33 Tim

He'll also speak about the Deaf organization that was also established the same year called PEVNOST and how that cooperation influenced everything and why they were created separately.

00:01:50 Tim

It's all about breaking the rules.

00:01:52 Tim

Getting rid of the established ideas that didn't work and using the ones that did and finding out what should be.

00:02:03 Tim

That's a lot to talk about.

00:02:05 Tim

So, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:02:11 Tim

You were looking at the books that Vesta gave you, the ideas that she gave you.

00:02:17 Tim

How did that fit into what the Chamber was doing.

00:02:21 Tim

Did you have workshops?

00:02:23 Tim

Did you work with Charles University?

00:02:25 Tim

Did you work with Pevnost, the Deaf organization?

00:02:28 Tim

How did it manifest?

00:02:29 Tim

How did it become a reality of, this is what the Chamber does?

00:02:34 Tim

Or was it merely a mission to be, we are the professional organization, we are the advocates for interpreters?

00:02:43 Tim

What was the focus at that time?

00:02:47 Jiří

At that time, it was more about that recognition. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:02:51 Jiří

Education was the part of the Chamber a bit later because I knew already that there are like-minded interpreters and I wanted to give them like a harbor, like something where they can feel like, “Okay, I'm not alone.”

00:03:10 Jiří

“I'm not weird and I'm not alone.” [Tim: Yeah]

00:03:13 Jiří

That was the first goal probably of the Chamber, knowing that this is who we are, we are not wrong.

00:03:22 Jiří

The fact that we do things differently because it feels right does not mean that it's wrong just because someone disagree with you.

00:03:33 Jiří

Someone else from other organization is telling you something.

00:03:36 Tim

Yeah.

00:03:37 Jiří

But I remember still having the members in the Chamber and it was about changing their mindset as well.

00:03:46 Tim

Yeah.

00:03:47 Jiří

Because they knew, “Okay, I'm a Chambers member, but I still should have that ID, right? from the other organization? So, I can interpret.” Yeah?

00:04:00 Tim

Yeah.

00:04:00 Jiří

And I was like, “Well, actually you don't.”

00:04:03 Jiří

“Well, yeah, we need that. Everybody's asking for this ID.” [Tim: hmm]

00:04:08 Jiří

Yeah?

00:04:09 Tim

Yeah.

00:04:10 Jiří

So that was the main goal at the very beginning to have like-minded people organized and support them.

00:04:21 Jiří

Then we had some workshops.

00:04:27 Jiří

I believe some of them were held by Vesta as well, because I did not feel like being the one who would teach.

00:04:35 Tim

Right.

00:04:35 Jiří

Yeah.

00:04:36 Jiří

I wanted to learn. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:04:38 Jiří

So, and you were for us, one of the sources from the outer world. [Tim: hmm]

00:04:47 Jiří

Yeah.

00:04:48 Jiří

Knowing way more than we do.

00:04:54 Jiří

It was!

00:04:55 Tim

Huh.

00:04:56 Tim

Well, I guess only six years…

00:04:58 Tim

Six years is not a long time, really. Yeah. Hmm.

00:05:02 Jiří

What do you mean?

00:05:03 Tim

Well, I came here six years after Chamber was founded.

00:05:08 Tim

So, in my mind, you guys were already established when I first came here.

00:05:13 Tim

So, I didn't think of myself as, say, on the evolutionary scale higher than you [Jiří: OK] at that time.

00:05:23 Jiří

Well, you actually acted like that.

00:05:25 Tim

Oh, I did?!

00:05:26 Jiří

I'm joking. No, I'm joking. [both laughing]

00:05:32 Tim

Ahhh. Whew! Okay. [both still laughing]

00:05:34 Jiří

I'm joking. Ahhh….

00:05:37 Jiří

But we were in touch sooner than that.

00:05:41 Tim

Yeah. [Jiří: yeah]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:05:43 Tim

And if you'd like to have things sooner, subscribe and follow the podcast.

00:05:48 Tim

Click on the links in the show notes.

00:05:50 Tim

You can even subscribe to the newsletter and get more information about everything I do.

00:05:56 Tim

Thank you.

00:05:56 Tim

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:05:59 Tim

When I first, was planning to come in 2006, early 2006, Chamber asked me to do a workshop there on my visit.

00:06:09 Tim

And it's funny, the perspective because perspective is everything.

00:06:14 Tim

Because for me, I was just an everyday interpreter in Oklahoma.

00:06:21 Tim

My background, I had already had university degrees, degrees in interpreting, degrees in American Sign Language.

00:06:28 Tim

I was part of the group of interpreters who would go to the Deaf club and involve myself in the Deaf community.

00:06:34 Tim

So, coming to Prague and being asked to tell us what is interpreting like in the US from my perspective, I felt like, “Well, what do I need to tell you?”

00:06:46 Tim

I mean, in my mind, you already know these things, but I did not have the perspective that you had in that you were still hungry for information.

00:06:57 Tim

And that information for me was kind of basic information because I had already had it.

00:07:02 Tim

And for me, it was a huge learning curve and an impact on my ego as well, because it made me realize how much I had that I thought was just normal, basic.

00:07:17 Tim

And I didn't realize how much, quote, power I had from knowing all of that.

00:07:23 Tim

However, I had not done what you guys had done.

00:07:26 Tim

I had not established an organization from nothing.

00:07:30 Tim

I had not learned the language straight from the Deaf community as you guys had.

00:07:34 Tim

And I think that is more, well, I think that's more of a strength than what I had.

00:07:41 Tim

I had knowledge.

00:07:42 Tim

I had been given so much from the evolution that we had already had.

00:07:47 Tim

And you were still not only evolving, but you were in a revolution evolution.

00:07:53 Jiří

It was big.

00:07:54 Jiří

It was big.

00:07:55 Jiří

And it was difficult for me as well, because what you were experiencing, I actually had on a certain level as well, because when I started, and I have learned something, I knew more than the others. [Tim: Yeah]

00:08:11 Jiří

But I felt like I don't know enough. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:08:14 Jiří

But I knew that it's more on a certain level.

00:08:17 Jiří

So, I started to share it.

00:08:19 Jiří

And then what happened at a certain moment, because I'm a fast learner, I'm really like a sponge, like everything that can be inside of my head on the topic and has to make sense, but I don't memorize things.

00:08:39 Jiří

That… The way how I work, how my head works is I cannot memorize anything.

00:08:44 Jiří

I have to recreate stuff almost every time based on the structure that I understand and have.

00:08:53 Jiří

So, if you ask me about some principles, I will tell you that by recreating them, or going to like a reverse engineering from what I do.

00:09:05 Tim

Yeah.

00:09:06 Jiří

All that kind of thing.

00:09:07 Jiří

So, what happened actually that then there was a time that I was teaching at the Charles University, the interpreting, but I felt like this is, it was difficult for me because I felt that pressure to be better than my students, knowing more than my students.

00:09:32 Tim

Yeah.

00:09:33 Jiří

And because I felt that this profession, sign language interpreter, shouldn't be different from any other interpreter that is in the Czech Republic, I actually started to interact with another part of the Charles University that was focused on interpreting and translatology. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:09:59 Jiří

So, I remember going to some conferences with the head of translatology at the time abroad together with her, and learning how we can be recognized as an interpreter of the other language, [Tim: Mm-hmm] the language that is equal to spoken languages.

00:10:25 Jiří

And I think that was very interesting for them as well, because the sign language interpreters were not for them in the same category or group as the spoken languages. [Tim: Yeah]

00:10:40 Jiří

So, there was that learning curve for all of us.

00:10:44 Jiří

The Charles University did a huge job on the recognition of the language, especially Professor Macurová. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:10:53 Jiří

It was amazing.

00:10:54 Jiří

It was amazing the way how they scientifically proved that it's a language.

00:11:01 Jiří

It has all the aspects that other languages do have.

00:11:06 Jiří

And it went hand in hand with the other parts of the Charles University learning about that as well.

00:11:14 Jiří

And actually, based on the cooperation with me and Macurová, that, yeah,…

00:11:22 Jiří

That's normal.

00:11:23 Jiří

That's normal.

00:11:24 Jiří

It's a part we should somehow cooperate.

00:11:26 Jiří

It's cool. [Tim: Yeah]

00:11:27 Jiří

It was actually weird that I was teaching interpreting outside of translatology that already has been established at the Charles University [Tim: Mm-hmm] for a very long time.

00:11:41 Jiří

I felt like breaking the rules, but that was the only way how to do it.

00:11:46 Jiří

Because in order to teach translatology and interpreting, in the proper department, that would need a lot more of paperwork and knowledge [Tim: Yeah] than I had. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:12:03 Jiří

So, I did my best.

00:12:06 Jiří

There was a lot of art interpreting, the theatrical interpreting happening as well.

00:12:13 Jiří

That was the discipline completely new to the Czech Republic. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:12:21 Jiří

Something that we have never done before.

00:12:24 Jiří

Vesta was a big part of it as well, teaching us how to do that and how to approach it.

00:12:32 Jiří

I remember working with her privately because it was mainly me who was doing that, and then I was passing on that to other people.

00:12:42 Jiří

And that was another very big learning curve for me, not for that specific field, like theatrical interpreting, but for me, understanding, again, more the general rules of interpreting, because this is just the part of it. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:13:04 Jiří

And I, in my, inside of my mind, I knew this is a special, this is a specialized skill, but that skill is, again, based on the same ground on the same common knowledge that you should actually use in any other field that you, or in any other situation that you are interpreting in, [Tim: Mm-hmm] should be the same.

00:13:33 Tim

Yeah.

00:13:34 Jiří

So, for me, I was always looking in different situations for the stuff that is common, how to apply the common knowledge or the common rules, and then to apply them especially for that situation, how to design them, how to utilize them for that particular situation.

00:13:57 Jiří

So, when I was learning in one of those settings something new, then I took that and somehow applied to the rest of my teaching as well.

00:14:09 Jiří

So, it was very improper, probably, because I was like a self-made interpreter.

00:14:18 Jiří

I didn't have any formal education.

00:14:21 Jiří

I just was trying to do my best at the time.

00:14:26 Jiří

The funny part that now it's very formal and the part of the people who are now the formal educators that they already are now having the education in interpreting [Tim: Mm-hmm] are actually, some of them are my students.

00:14:43 Tim

Right.

00:14:43 Jiří

Yeah.

00:14:44 Jiří

And of course, then they built on top of that, all that other knowledge that now makes them eligible to do what they do. [Tim: Yeah]

00:14:53 Jiří

But it was a crazy era that we were just like, I was building on a sand, you know, I was trying to build like a super sturdy house on something that I didn't know how to do it.

00:15:07 Jiří

It was actually really like if I would decide to build a house, not knowing anything about the building [Tim: Yeah] itself, like about how to build and what professions and what parts are actually necessary.

00:15:22 Jiří

So, learning during the process, knowing that I don't know enough. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:15:30 Jiří

That was always that, I had always that oscillation because for the ego, it was not very nice knowing all the time that it's, that I'm not good enough, you know?

00:15:40 Tim

Yeah.

00:15:40 Jiří

But at the same time, knowing that, okay, I know more than the others.

00:15:44 Jiří

But for myself, I was like, I don't know enough. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:15:48 Jiří

I can try.

00:15:51 Jiří

And I was trying and I was actually finding the rules from my daily experience and then I was so happy to find in the books later. [both chuckling]

00:16:06 Jiří

I was like, “Oh, I do this, this is how it's named, actually, this is how this is called, this is how it's called. And okay, and there are a few more that I have not discovered yet.” [both still laughing]

00:16:20 Tim

Uh-huh. That correlates to a lot of countries who are just starting out.

00:16:24 Tim

When I spoke with Sharon Neumann Solow three, four years ago, her time in the U.S. first starting to teach at, I think she was 18, 19, and they didn't have any books.

00:16:38 Tim

They didn't have any of this.

00:16:40 Tim

It was just at the same time that American Sign Language was slowly becoming recognized.

00:16:47 Tim

The linguistics was already there, but many people had not recognized it, even the Deaf community.

00:16:53 Tim

So, it's a similar time, but of course, much, well, that was in the 60s, 1960s.

00:16:58 Tim

So, it's wonderful to see that even during this time, you made mistakes, obviously, we all do.

00:17:05 Tim

But now, like you say, your students are teaching and their students are now teaching.

00:17:12 Tim

And it has been 25 years now since Chamber, yeah, 25 years, this year is the anniversary when Chamber was founded.

00:17:22 Tim

That would be in December, I guess, 25 years.

00:17:26 Jiří

Yes, I believe that it was 20th of December that we, uh, I actually went with all the paperwork and had the whole organization started.

00:17:38 Jiří

And for some reason, it was a personal to me that we supposed to do it the same year as a Pevnost was founded.

00:17:50 Tim

Yeah.

00:17:51 Jiří

But they did it in May.

00:17:54 Jiří

I was slightly involved in that as well, because of course, you have to understand this was happening within one family, one, two partners, that I think that part is kind of powerful.

00:18:07 Jiří

If I will think about it from that point of view. [Tim: Yeah] That the couple decided. And being exposed to the certain things and then encourage mutually [Tim: Mm-hmm] one, the other one, that this is supposed to be changed. And that we are doing the right stuff, the right thing, you know. [Tim: Yeah] And that we cannot be one organization and it has to be completely separate [Tim: Yeah] and closely cooperating.

00:18:38 Jiří

But separate, because that was one of the things that was missing.

00:18:46 Jiří

And that was that separation of teaching sign language, teaching the culture, recognizing all of that, and then having the interpreting as a separate profession that can learn and should learn about language and culture, but it's not part of it from professional point of view.

00:19:10 Tim

Yeah.

00:19:11 Tim

Why is that important to have it separate?

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:19:13 Tim

Because you got to keep them separated.

00:19:15 Tim

If you don't know that song, that's okay.

00:19:18 Tim

Get in touch with me by donating to Buy Me a Coffee and support the show to keep this podcast going.

00:19:25 Tim

Donate to the Passion.

00:19:26 Tim

Thank you.

00:19:27 Tim

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:19:30 Tim

Why is that important to have it separate?

00:19:32 Jiří

For me, it was probably more important because of what I have experienced. [Tim: Mm-hmm] That and because being aware of my ego as well and experiencing it, what was happening to me unconsciously as well, that I felt somehow superior or better or knowing more about language.

00:19:57 Jiří

[sarcastically] Because when you're an interpreter, you know more than just the users, right? [Tim chuckling]

00:20:02 Jiří

Yeah, that kind of mindset.

00:20:05 Jiří

And then having…

00:20:06 Jiří

Imagine having this kind of energy and thoughts and then having the field that you can apply it to because you are [laughing] a part of the organization that all other people, based on your thoughts, don't know what you know.

00:20:23 Tim

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:20:23 Jiří

So, you could like enlighten them, [Tim: Mm-hmm] explain [to] them how well and how good you are and how well you know all of that.

00:20:31 Jiří

So, I think this is probably the natural dynamics, [Tim: Yeah] that happened to the CODAs and the whole previous situation, which is probably natural. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:20:44 Jiří

I don't think, and this is very important to me to say, I don't think that any of that that was happening was meant in a bad way. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:20:56 Jiří

This was just understanding that was based on their personal experience. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:21:04 Jiří

And I believe that if someone would tell me, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you can see that Deaf people are not able to be so successful and to communicate and like they don't know so much as we do as a hearing people because we are exposed to other stuff.”

00:21:22 Jiří

That for me, it was important to be aware of two parts of myself.

00:21:26 Jiří

One that wants to fight for recognizing that Deaf people are equal. But the other part that I, even now saying it, don't feel very comfortable acknowledging they are right.

00:21:41 Jiří

They don't know that much because they are not exposed to the hearing environment.

00:21:47 Jiří

They don't know so well if they go to office somewhere or they want to get the building approval. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:21:55 Jiří

They don't know because they have not heard about it from other people talking about it.

00:22:00 Jiří

So being able now to understand the - my opponent point of view or someone who I disagree, to find that understanding in what they are saying, even though I disagree on some emotional or ethical level with that [Tim: Mm-hmm] is for me, like super, super important.

00:22:24 Jiří

And having that, and again, it's like me and someone else having another opinion is important because for that separation of the Chamber and the Deaf organization, because they can have and they do have different opinions on certain subjects, including interpreting. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:22:54 Jiří

Or they can say like, this is what we want, this is how we want it.

00:22:58 Jiří

And then there is the professional stand, the point of view that, “Okay, I understand that you want that. I will do my best.”

00:23:10 Jiří

Then how to politically present it, right?

00:23:13 Jiří

But basically, this is against something that I do. I cannot do…

00:23:17 Jiří

This is what's happening inside.

00:23:19 Jiří

And then how to translate it to overcome this first reaction of resistance that's, “No, I cannot do that because this is not how interpreting should be.” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:23:31 Jiří

Yeah.

00:23:32 Tim

Yeah.

00:23:32 Jiří

And understand like, okay, there is probably something behind that message that actually really express the need [Tim: Mm-hmm] and understand that need and how I can provide it according and in line with my code with my inner code as well, [Tim: Mm-hmm] ethical code.

00:23:57 Jiří

That's something that I think is a big thing to learn as well.

00:24:02 Jiří

And it's way better to have that if you are not part of the organization and having someone who's your boss telling you that this is what you should do and you just don't feel like this is how it should be.

00:24:17 Jiří

And you need your people who supports the same way as a Deaf people support themselves.

00:24:24 Jiří

You need interpreters who support themselves, that you can share the struggles, the struggles of the hearing person as well. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:24:33 Jiří

That is in that world of Deaf people and Deaf community and having all those conflicts, internal conflicts that you cannot share [Tim: Mm-hmm] if you would have the one organization.

00:24:50 Jiří

Then actually you would probably create some section of that organization anyway, [Tim: Mm-hmm] because you want to have those hearing people being able to share between themselves what they have, and then having the Deaf colleagues, interpreters, who already have way different way and more access to the hearing world, and to being exposed and share with other hearing colleagues what they have, then they can share their stuff as well.

00:25:27 Jiří

And that helps actually to understand the internal processes and the mental struggles that we have when we basically provide a service.

00:25:39 Jiří

This has nothing to do with what the Deaf people actually should know about, you know? Like why they would know like, how we are depressed, when we do some of the stuff. [Tim chuckling]

00:25:53 Jiří

No, we, this is something that should be cooked, like that pot, and then the meal, once it is good, then you will have it in that restaurant and consume it. You know. It's the same like you go to the restaurant, and I would be like, “I'm sorry, I was trying to do this, but it's not cooking so well, it didn't end up, but I hope that you will like it anyway”, you know, and it's happening to me every time. You know. [Tim chuckles]

00:26:20 Jiří

I'm really thinking and all of it, all that story, and you will be sitting expecting the having delivered the great meal and then the chef would come and start to share the stuff.

00:26:32 Jiří

About like how he didn't have a time for this and he’s sorry that this is not okay and like for all of it. [Tim chuckles]

00:26:40 Jiří

It's just like it's not correct from my point of view. [both chuckles]

00:26:45 Jiří

You just offer it when it's done, and that cooking process and learning process is something that is to the big level, it's hidden from the consumer. [Tim: Yeah]

00:26:58 Jiří

Yeah.

00:26:58 Jiří

And it should be hidden from the consumer.

00:27:01 Jiří

And it has disavantages, dis-ad-vantage, although, I think, because then when you have all of that cooked inside of your pot, and then you just present the result. It may be mistaken for easy peasy, you know, things like, well, it's so easy to do it.

00:27:22 Jiří

Look at it. [Tim chuckling]

00:27:23 Jiří

How easy is that, you know?

00:27:25 Jiří

So having some kind of sometimes like awareness events [Tim: Yeah] that the Deaf people know that this is not easy. [Tim: Yeah]

00:27:36 Jiří

They don't need to learn it some kind of like a hard way, but it's going to be presented in a nice way.

00:27:41 Jiří

It's actually education that is part of using interpreter is knowing some of it, but not when, while it is happening.

00:27:51 Jiří

But having it summarized somehow, it's the same like, you have those, like sneak peeks in a chef's kitchen and having all those cooking shows that you can see how big struggle is to run the successful restaurant. Yeah?

00:28:07 Tim

Yeah.

00:28:08 Tim

And how they always...

00:28:09 Tim

take a towel and wipe off the mistake off the plate so the plate looks pristinely clean and perfect.

00:28:16 Tim

No drops, no smears of the sauce.

00:28:19 Tim

It's all clean.

00:28:20 Tim

And so, when you get the plate, it looks perfect.

00:28:22 Tim

How did they pour the sauce just perfectly like that?

00:28:26 Tim

Well, they didn't.

00:28:26 Tim

They wiped off the mistakes.

00:28:28 Jiří

Exactly.

00:28:29 Jiří

And in your mind, it's like, “How do they do it every time?” [both laughing] [Tim: Yes]

00:28:35 Jiří

They don't.

00:28:38 Tim

That's perfect.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:28:45 Tim

The first goal of the Chamber, to be a professional organization for sign language interpreters in the Czech Republic, to give them that status of a profession, to support them, to give them a space separate from the Deaf community.

00:29:01 Tim

In other words, separate from our consumers, our clients, to give us that privacy to work out what we should do, what we need, what we need to complain about.

00:29:13 Tim

Especially in the beginning, we have to figure out what is the profession, what does it mean to be a sign language interpreter, and have those discussions that our clients don't necessarily need to hear.

00:29:25 Tim

Not at first.

00:29:27 Tim

And once we have something figured out, that's when we can ask.

00:29:31 Tim

That's when we can take the answers that we get and realize whether we need to change something or to add something.

00:29:40 Tim

It also gives them, especially in the time that Jirka is talking about, it gives the Deaf community their own space where they are in control, where they have the autonomy, they have the decision-making power separate and apart from the hearing community, including the interpreting community that has power as well.

00:30:04 Tim

And that mutual consent of having a separate space, but still having the connection, the cooperation, the support of one another, that is key, a wonderful relationship to start.

00:30:20 Tim

It wasn't about “me, me, me”, it was about doing the right thing.

00:30:24 Tim

It was about finding those connections that you didn't know you had or you needed.

00:30:30 Tim

They worked together to accomplish mutual goals.

00:30:35 Tim

He felt like he was breaking the rules, at least the old rules, but he was doing it in cooperation with others who were also breaking the rules, pioneering into linguistics of Czech Sign Language.

00:30:50 Tim

He was pioneering into figuring out what we do as interpreters, getting the information where he could from interpreters outside the country and spoken language interpreters within his own community.

00:31:05 Tim

For me, it's poignant to hear Jirka talk about artistic interpreting as being, well, just interpreting.

00:31:15 Tim

Yes, it's a different situation, but you're using the skills that are common throughout the interpreting process and just adapting them for that particular situation.

00:31:26 Tim

And the final note, keep the messes in the kitchen and only show the finished product.

00:31:34 Tim

Sometimes we're not sure even how we got there, but we don't always have to open that up and tell everyone during our work what we're doing.

00:31:43 Tim

They don't need to know, nor do they always care.

00:31:47 Tim

They want to see the final product, and they don't know if we made mistakes along the way, as long as the finished product is good.

00:31:55 Tim

So, what's next?

00:31:57 Tim

Well, until then, keep calm, keep exploring interpreting.

00:32:03 Tim

I'll see you next week.

00:32:04 Tim

Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:32:41]