IW 180: Interview Jiri Janecek Part 2: Thank You Vesta - Sit and Listen It's Their Language - No Mercy

"Well, I think..." It doesn't matter what you think.

Part 2 of the conversation with Jiři Janeček in the Czech Republic. We learn how he started the Czech Chamber of Sign Language Interpreters and the American who influenced many at that time, encouraging them to boldly establish new organizations and to be proud of what they are and have.

That person was Vesta Sauter, surprisingly someone I know in the circle of life.

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Transcript

IW 180: Interview Jiri Janecek Part 2: Thank You Vesta - Sit and Listen It’s Their Language - No Mercy

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now, the quote of the day by French philosopher Voltaire.

00:00:40 Tim

“Our wretched species is so made that those who walk on the well-trodden path always throw stones at those who are showing a new road.”

00:00:51 Tim

It seems like there's a lot of metaphors, idioms, stories, about the journey, about the path, about new roads less traveled.

00:01:03 Tim

I think it might be important to think about our journey through life.

00:01:08 Tim

Well, today we continue the journey with Jirka Janeček from the Czech Republic, the one who founded the Chamber of Czech Sign Language Interpreters.

00:01:20 Tim

Oh, those many years ago.

00:01:23 Tim

We learn how he did it, and we learn of an unexpected mentor along the way and much more.

00:01:30 Tim

So, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:37 Tim

So, if you're wanting to start this new Chamber and all of these interpreters that you were in touch with already had their own organizations and they already looked at you as a newcomer, someone who's trying to change things, how did you get anyone to get involved with you to set up this new Chamber?

00:01:58 Jiří

I didn't, I was not any threat to them because they looked at me so much from above [Tim: hmm] that they were like, “okay, yeah, we are willing to do something for you, and we are willing to educate you.”

00:02:15 Jiří

So, they never took me as a competitor, or I was problematic for them.

00:02:25 Jiří

I was just like the one who was asking more questions than other people asked. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:02:30 Jiří

But they were with that motherly approach, usually, “That's okay, Jiří.”

00:02:37 Jiří

And so, they did it in a way that they (hmm) patronized me?

00:02:43 Tim

Yeah.

00:02:44 Jiří

Is that the word?

00:02:45 Tim

Yeah.

00:02:46 Jiří

So, they patronized me a little bit.

00:02:49 Jiří

And at the same time, I was always being in a situation that they made sure that I'm in a situation that I felt I'm not enough and there is way more that they are willing in the right time to tell me.

00:03:05 Jiří

But the right time didn't come yet.

00:03:07 Tim

Right.

00:03:07 Jiří

So, then I realized, okay, I have to do it.

00:03:11 Jiří

I have to set up the organization.

00:03:13 Jiří

So, I did my research, and I realized, shockingly, that you need almost nothing to do that. [Tim: hmm]

00:03:22 Jiří

And which just confirmed my feeling from the previous era that I just saw the other organizations that they felt like those are the organizations, the important ones, but they had the same status.

00:03:37 Jiří

Like it was non-profit organization that if you would like to have a Chamber of gardening, [Tim chuckling] you could do it and just ask some gardeners and set up the Chamber of gardening and name it that way.

00:03:52 Jiří

So, what I did, I just, we need something like that. [both chuckling]

00:03:58 Jiří

So, I'm going to call it that way, the Chamber of Czech Sign Language Interpreters.

00:04:03 Jiří

It was a process. [Tim: Yeah]

00:04:05 Jiří

We were having the discussion with people that we needed, I needed to set up that because one person cannot be the part of nonprofit organization and set it by just for himself. [Tim chuckling]

00:04:21 Jiří

And so, there were the rules, how many people have to be there. [Tim: ah]

00:04:27 Jiří

And I reached out to people that I was already in touch with them because my boyfriend, few months earlier, set up the Deaf organization separate from the one, the ones that already have been there.

00:04:48 Jiří

So, we as a couple actually set up two professional organizations, one for the Deaf and one for the hearing and interpreters.

00:04:59 Jiří

So, there were already like-minded people, hearing people already in his surrounding or our surrounding amongst our friends, people that we were in touch.

00:05:13 Tim

Yeah.

00:05:14 Jiří

I decided to ask some of them and I felt that urge to, like, have that organization because I had insight that feeling unfairness and that this has to be changed.

00:05:28 Jiří

That's something that actually drives me in and motivates me in any profession that I have done.

00:05:36 Jiří

The feeling that this doesn't look right [Tim: Mm-hmm] and it has to be improved.

00:05:44 Tim

Yeah.

00:05:44 Jiří

I was not looking for the fixing anything, but more like improving, standardize it, to have it as good as it's possible. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:05:54 Jiří

For me, it is like going to the source as close as possible to learn from the people who are the most experience in the field, which was quite difficult in the Czech Republic to find those people.

00:06:08 Jiří

So, we said, like, okay, we will set the organization, we will find the organization, and we will then work from that.

00:06:19 Jiří

I didn't have a bigger idea at the very beginning.

00:06:24 Jiří

“How is it going to be.”

00:06:25 Jiří

I just knew we need something that will differentiate from the other organizations, because those two other organizations were kind of competitors.

00:06:37 Jiří

But at the same time, it is like there is a saying, like, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, right?

00:06:46 Tim

Yeah.

00:06:46 Jiří

And which means that they were actually supporting each other anytime that there was something outside that could affect them. [Tim: Yeah]

00:06:56 Jiří

And when there was nothing outside, because they made sure that they, from their point of view, had the power to claim that that person doesn't have that ID, which means that he's not authorized to do any interpreting and they're keeping it for themselves. [Tim: Yeah]

00:07:18 Jiří

So, I said, “Okay, we need to have another organization because actually there is… It's not forbidden.”

00:07:25 Jiří

We have a saying in the Czech Republic that is very difficult for other countries to understand that “what is not forbidden is allowed.” [Tim chuckling: Yes]

00:07:36 Jiří

And it was not forbidden to set up the Chamber. [Tim chuckling]

00:07:41 Jiří

So, we set up the Chamber. [Tim: Yeah]

00:07:44 Jiří

I felt probably the biggest urge, because being exposed too much to it.

00:07:49 Jiří

So, I convinced the others that this is the right thing and that we are going to do it and it's going to be great.

00:07:56 Jiří

And some of them were resisting a little bit, like, “Oh, I'm not sure, and I don't want to have complications in my life.”

00:08:03 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

00:08:04 Jiří

All of that, because they were part of the community and that community had already its own dynamics.

00:08:11 Tim

Yeah.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:08:12 Tim

This is where you come in.

00:08:14 Tim

Supporting others, that's what it's all about.

00:08:17 Tim

So, stop listening, click on the links in the show notes, Buy Me A Coffee, and donate to help support episodes like this one.

00:08:26 Tim

Thank you.

00:08:26 Tim

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:08:29 Tim

I'm thinking about when I first came here, I found out that there was another American who had come here that I actually knew, but I didn't know she had been here.

00:08:41 Tim

Vesta Sauter.

00:08:42 Tim

She was the sister-in-law of the director of the interpreting program where I went to in Oklahoma.

00:08:50 Tim

She was here sometime around this, this era that you're talking about.

00:08:55 Tim

Was she any influence?

00:08:57 Tim

Was she any support?

00:08:58 Tim

Or how did she fit into this whole situation?

00:09:04 Jiří

I think without Vesta, nothing of that would happen.

00:09:07 Tim

Why is that?

00:09:08 Jiří

She was the first person that saw Deaf people as a fully developed human beings with a rich language that is actually in a certain ways capable to express more than the spoken languages.

00:09:28 Jiří

Because spoken languages are linear, sign language can actually express more things at once, [Tim: Mm-hmm] which was super cool [both chuckling] to hearing person to realize.

00:09:41 Jiří

It's like, “Wow! [Tim: yeah] I will never be able to say several words at the same time.”

00:09:46 Tim

Exactly.

00:09:47 Jiří

Several words.

00:09:48 Jiří

Yeah.

00:09:48 Jiří

So, I was like, “Wow, this is cool.”

00:09:50 Jiří

And she educated Deaf people about their language, actually helping them to connect what they do and what they have, [Tim: Mm-hmm] that this is the way how that's that language that they use between themselves [Tim: Mm-hmm] is the language that is the real language.

00:10:14 Jiří

And then what they do, they have to adjust and just use the parts of the language, and they are adjusting to the hearing world and to the spoken language.

00:10:27 Jiří

So, what they use with other hearing people is not the better version of their language.

00:10:33 Jiří

But it is something that is needed because the hearing people would not understand because the hearing people don't know the language that they are actually using.

00:10:42 Jiří

So, the Deaf people do the extra work. Yeah? [Tim chuckles]

00:10:45 Tim

Yeah.

00:10:46 Jiří

So, the hearing people can understand. [Tim: Yeah]

00:10:48 Tim

So, she kind of turned the tables and said, “No, it's actually the opposite of what you are thinking.”

00:10:53 Jiří

Oh, completely, completely.

00:10:57 Jiří

And I remember the situation when I actually was getting to the situation or my internal setting that was unconsciously closer and closer to the “CODA setting” that I felt I know more than Deaf people. [Tim: Hmm] Because I was like studying what they have.

00:11:26 Jiří

I was studying the other things.

00:11:28 Jiří

And then when I understood something, I was so eager to share it and to say like, “No, no, no, it should be this way or that way. And maybe we can fine tune it.”

00:11:39 Jiří

And there was a situation in front of all other Deaf people that I was a part of the group because I was learning that language as well.

00:11:48 Jiří

And I wanted to be exposed to it and to see what are the rules, and everything, that she came to me in front of all of them, probably entering my private space, [Tim chuckling] kind of, because I remember her being very close to me. [Tim: Yeah]

00:12:05 Jiří

And she said, like, “You know nothing about that language. It's not your language. You have no right to judge what they do and decide what's wrong or what's right.” [Tim: Yeah] “You can just sit here, learn and you will always know less than them from that point of view because it's their language. They are born with that language usually.” [Tim: Yeah] “And you are simply foreigner here.” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:12:38 Jiří

That was like very, very strong hit on me and my ego and everything.

00:12:46 Tim

Yeah.

00:12:46 Jiří

Yeah.

00:12:47 Jiří

That was big, big, big moment for me, that I processed a long time.

00:12:54 Tim

Yeah.

00:12:55 Tim

Was this before or after Chamber had been founded?

00:12:59 Jiří

Before.

00:13:00 Jiří

Everything before, because then I realized that it should be done differently.

00:13:07 Jiří

And I saw her interpreting.

00:13:09 Jiří

It was beautiful.

00:13:10 Jiří

When I saw her interpreting, it was beautiful.

00:13:13 Jiří

I could see the, not the transfer of the information, [Tim: Mm-hmm] but the transfer of the feeling, the emotions, everything that is a part of that message.

00:13:26 Jiří

So, I saw the Deaf people crying when there was something sad, you know, interpreted.

00:13:34 Jiří

I saw them laughing.

00:13:36 Jiří

I saw them feeling so comfortable and at ease when they were receiving that information.

00:13:41 Jiří

There was no trying for them [Tim: Yeah] to understand and to adjust somehow. [Tim: hmm]

00:13:48 Jiří

They were just like completely melted and enjoying the message.

00:13:56 Jiří

And she looked like an angel to me.

00:13:58 Jiří

She was like a very graceful when she was signing as well.

00:14:02 Jiří

Oh, it was sign language. The sign language is very good. [making a joke]

00:14:05 Jiří

[Tim laughing] It's a beautiful thing. Yes.

00:14:09 Jiří

It is, it is.

00:14:10 Jiří

And she was a woman and she had that, she had that part of her signing was that it all looked to me very, very elegant and structured.

00:14:20 Jiří

That was the part I was like, “Wow, I see the structure. I see a lot of structure that is completely clear to me.”

00:14:30 Jiří

I didn't know how to make it, but I already understood it. [Tim: Yeah]

00:14:34 Jiří

And I was like; this is so cool.

00:14:37 Jiří

And so, I asked her if she could teach me, if she could teach me how to do it.

00:14:43 Tim

Yeah.

00:14:44 Jiří

So, she was actually my first teacher, not for the language, because she said, if I want to learn the language, I should go to the Deaf people. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:14:53 Jiří

Which was the big difference as well, because the organizations that I went before to, they were actually not teaching me interpreting.

00:15:04 Jiří

They were just teaching me some sort of language, signs, basically, usually.

00:15:11 Jiří

They're just like vocabulary. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:15:14 Jiří

So, I would know how to sign certain things.

00:15:18 Jiří

They were not so much into any grammar because that's actually almost the same as Czech, right? [Tim: Yeah]

00:15:26 Jiří

It's a Czech sign language, so the grammar has to be the same as a Czech spoken language.

00:15:30 Jiří

Who would question that, right? [both chuckle]

00:15:32 Tim

Exactly.

00:15:33 Tim

Yeah.

00:15:34 Jiří

It's clear.

00:15:35 Jiří

Yes.

00:15:35 Tim

It's not forbidden, right?

00:15:37 Jiří

Yeah.

00:15:40 Jiří

It's the same language. [Tim laughing]

00:15:42 Jiří

“And that way, we will educate the Deaf people more, so they will be more successful in a hearing language. Why would you like to keep them more separate by what you do? [Tim: Yeah] If you can help them to be part of the Czech spoken culture, because anyway, they are Czechs, right?” [Tim: Yeah] 

00:16:01 Jiří

“So, if they are Czechs, they are the part of the culture.”

00:16:04 Jiří

And that was the other thing that Vesta taught me, that it's not the language that is different, but there is a culture that is different, which was completely new to me at the time. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:16:18 Jiří

I knew it from home already that we do some things differently.

00:16:24 Jiří

If something is impolite in hearing culture, it’s completely okay in a Deaf culture [Tim: Mm-hmm] and vice versa. [Tim: Yeah]

00:16:35 Jiří

So that was the part of it.

00:16:37 Jiří

It was all of that, the small things, like if the two Deaf people are signing, the best way how you will recognize the hearing person is that they hesitate to cut and walk between them. Yeah? [Tim laughing]

00:16:52 Jiří

They are always like standing there and waiting until... [both laughing] All of this…

00:16:56 Jiří

And all of this was the part of what she was teaching and making, just like raising that awareness.

00:17:05 Jiří

Because the Deaf people are super excited because they were like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is exactly how we do it.” [Tim: Mmm]

00:17:12 Jiří

She was like, “This is the part of your culture.” “We didn't know that this is the culture. We just knew we just know that this is how we do it.”

00:17:19 Jiří

Yeah?

00:17:20 Tim

Yeah.

00:17:20 Jiří

And so that recognition of the language and the culture was something that was a big motivation for me that I want to set up the organization that will respect this. [Tim: Mm-hmm] Because this is this…

00:17:39 Jiří

This felt right.

00:17:41 Jiří

This felt completely right to me, and it made sense.

00:17:45 Jiří

I questioned a lot of stuff, but when I questioned that, it was still solid.

00:17:52 Jiří

It still made sense. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:17:55 Jiří

So that was the reason for me to set up the organization.

00:17:58 Jiří

That actually probably ignited that internal flame that was burning more and more, that need [Tim: Yeah] to change this, because I saw that none of it is respected in a situation that I was part of and where some older interpreters were involved.

00:18:22 Jiří

It was recognition compared to suppression. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:18:27 Jiří

That was the reason.

00:18:28 Jiří

That was the reason for me.

00:18:29 Jiří

And because of the Vesta teaching, I believe, that was the impulse for Pevnost, the other organization being set up as well, because they felt empowered. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:18:43 Jiří

The Deaf people felt empowered, and they wanted to share what they have (yeah?) [Tim: Yeah] and to get it out to the world. Which was so different from seeing Deaf people feeling that they are not good enough.

00:19:05 Jiří

And knowing that they need to adjust anytime that they actually face the hearing person, which was something that was happening to me with my boyfriend's parents, for example.

00:19:21 Jiří

But later on, and that was very, very nice to experience, when I actually started to learn sign language, it went to the point when his parents just signed to me the same way as they signed to him. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:19:41 Jiří

Actually, there was no mercy. Yeah? [Tim laughing]

00:19:47 Jiří

[laughing] So, when he was present, he was like, “Did you get that?”

00:19:51 Jiří

I was like, “Yeah, yeah, sure, I did.”

00:19:53 Jiří

“Tell me.”

00:19:57 Tim

Yeah. [both laughing]

00:19:57 Jiří

Which was great.

00:19:58 Jiří

It was great because I think this is one of the things that we will probably talk later about is that the interpreter should be aware of his limits [Tim: Mm-hmm] and limitations.

00:20:12 Jiří

But this is a big part of it.

00:20:15 Jiří

Like, “No, and it's not like that I'm a Superman knowing everything.”

00:20:19 Jiří

But I should be always aware that they actually are, on a certain level, always ahead. [both laughing]

00:20:27 Jiří

That I cannot be as good as they are.

00:20:30 Jiří

This is my second, third, fourth language. [Tim: yeah]

00:20:33 Jiří

So how could I? [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:20:36 Jiří

So, the ego stuff and all of this was involved a lot. [chuckling]

00:20:40 Jiří

And I'm the person who likes to be good, at least, if not the best. [Tim: Yeah]

00:20:46 Jiří

So having that part of me questioned or challenged by all those questions that I had to admit that actually I'm not good enough in my head.

00:20:59 Jiří

Because for them, it was still like that I was doing something very different from other people, but it was inside of me.

00:21:06 Jiří

It was my feeling that I'm not good enough.

00:21:09 Jiří

But for me, it was a motivation to learn more of the language.

00:21:15 Jiří

And for some reason, and that's a part of my life in general, I like to see the system and I finally, in a sign language and the culture of the Deaf people, I saw the dynamics, I saw the system, I saw how it works.

00:21:37 Jiří

So, it started to click and put the pieces together. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:21:42 Jiří

So, I started to learn that way.

00:21:44 Jiří

And when I do it and when I'm excited, I'm kind of fast learner.

00:21:50 Jiří

So it went to the point that when we went somewhere together and the Deaf people didn't know me, they did not realize for the first hour that I'm hearing.

00:22:00 Jiří

And they didn't believe it because I was using all the facial expression, I was using the muscles differently.

00:22:08 Jiří

And they were like, always enjoying the Deaf people like, “Hey, he does it like me, like we do.” Yeah. [Tim: Yeah]

00:22:14 Jiří

Because some of those subtle movements looks like a ticks almost [Tim: Mm-hmm] that simply are not in a facial expression regimen of the hearing person. [Tim: Yeah]

00:22:26 Jiří

We look kind of frozen compared to them, right? [both laughing]

00:22:32 Tim

Definitely. Yeah.

00:22:33 Jiří

Yeah.

00:22:33 Jiří

So, I have learned that as well.

00:22:35 Jiří

And anytime they were like, “Yeah, this is cool.”

00:22:38 Jiří

I felt like I'm so excited.

00:22:40 Jiří

I'm so good.

00:22:42 Jiří

So yeah, that is a part of my motivation.

00:22:44 Jiří

It's good to know what motivates you, [chuckling] even though it's egodriven.

00:22:49 Tim

Sure.

00:22:49 Jiří

Yeah, it still was nice.

00:22:52 Tim

And it's good for us to have those “Vestas” in our life who say, “You're not as good as you think you are.”

00:22:58 Jiří

Exactly.

00:22:59 Tim

Don't overstep your bounds.

00:23:00 Tim

Respect what you're involved in.

00:23:03 Tim

That's something a lot of students of sign language, I know I had it.

00:23:09 Tim

I thought I'm really good.

00:23:11 Tim

And I had that ego as well, but it was my Deaf teachers telling me, “Stop, you're not Deaf. When you meet a Deaf person, tell them you're hearing, don't fake it, because that's disrespectful.”

00:23:24 Tim

And it's good that we have those “Vestas” in our lives.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:23:30 Tim

If you haven't already, subscribe and follow the podcast.

00:23:34 Tim

Share it with a friend so more can hear this story and all the others.

00:23:39 Tim

Thank you.

00:23:40 Tim

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:23:45 Tim

I came here only a few years after you started Chamber.

00:23:50 Tim

And my first, well, I'd say my second experience with Chamber was at an efsli conference here in Prague.

00:23:59 Tim

Take me back to the first few years of Chamber.

00:24:04 Tim

Were you connected with efsli, the European Form of Sign Language Interpreters, the organization around Europe?

00:24:10 Tim

Since Chamber was new, did you reach out to efsli or did they reach out to you to become a member?

00:24:18 Tim

Or did you have examples from outside the Czech Republic other than Vesta who were helping you get through, say, the process of setting up and what the organization should have?

00:24:29 Jiří

First, I had the books from Vesta that they were related to interpreting.

00:24:36 Tim

Books?

00:24:37 Jiří

Yeah, I had Sharon Neumann Solow.

00:24:39 Tim

It's the Resource…?

00:24:41 Jiří

Yeah, yeah. [Tim: yeah] Yeah.

00:24:42 Jiří

Very old one. [Tim chuckles]

00:24:46 Jiří

In a way that it was revolutionary.

00:24:49 Jiří

I was reading about, again, for me, the structure, about some rules, about the different models, the types of interpreting and all of it.

00:25:01 Jiří

It was for me like something that was very comforting.

00:25:06 Jiří

So, I had a book from Sharon Neumann Solow that had all the structure and information about interpreting and the knowledge that I didn't have. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And the structure that it helped me to then have a frame that I can use when I'm understanding the world of interpreting [Tim: Yeah] and to recognizing the different types of function as an interpreter.

00:25:37 Jiří

So, I didn't know first that there are, that there is international organization of interpreters.

00:25:48 Jiří

Based on those books, I knew that there are interpreters “out there”. [both laughing]

00:25:58 Jiří

They are already in a different stage of “evolution”. [still laughing] [Tim: uh-huh]

00:26:10 Jiří

Me being like a [laughing]…

00:26:12 Jiří

I was just like, uh, the chicken who just cracked the shell of the egg, you know. [Tim: uh-huh]

00:26:18 Jiří

And I was like, “Oh, they are already the chickens, like the adult ones, around me.” [both still laughing throughout]

00:26:25 Jiří

“Somewhere they do exist.”

00:26:28 Jiří

So yeah, actually I do not recall or remember exactly how was it with efsli, but I think I reached out to them because the first thing was not the efsli conference here.

00:26:43 Jiří

They would not come.

00:26:44 Jiří

Why would they?

00:26:46 Jiří

Yeah.

00:26:46 Tim

Yeah.

00:26:46 Jiří

So, I remember visiting them.

00:26:51 Tim

Right.

00:26:52 Jiří

I remember having the first presentation in front of all the representatives from other countries. [Tim: Mmm]

00:27:01 Jiří

That was a big moment for me. Yeah.

00:27:05 Jiří

Because I was informing like how we started, how is the situation, [Tim: Mm-hmm] how is the education, everything.

00:27:14 Jiří

And then there was like a very long, standing ovation.

00:27:19 Tim

Wow.

00:27:19 Jiří

It's emotional even now for me, because there was that, they knew, they felt that there is something happening.

00:27:28 Jiří

There is like a big thing because they already, they knew what is it going to be [Tim: Mm-hmm] and how, how big milestone is that.

00:27:38 Jiří

They knew more than me how big is it.

00:27:40 Tim

Yeah.

00:27:41 Jiří

So, I felt that support and that was big.

00:27:46 Jiří

It was a big moment for me.

00:27:49 Tim

Where was that?

00:27:50 Jiří

Was it England?

00:27:51 Jiří

We will need to go back to the archives of the efsli.

00:27:53 Jiří

I think that it is probably somewhere even maybe written in...

00:27:58 Jiří

It was a efsli conference.

00:27:59 Jiří

I know that.

00:28:01 Tim

So, it was...

00:28:02 Tim

somewhere probably 2002 or 2004, I guess.

00:28:06 Tim

Well, no, I guess because efsli is every year, so it could have been anywhere between 2000 and 2006.

00:28:13 Tim

Yeah.

00:28:14 Jiří

I would say it had to be in a few first years of Chamber.

00:28:19 Jiří

But definitely we get in touch.

00:28:22 Jiří

It was not even the support.

00:28:23 Jiří

We just wanted to share what's going on.

00:28:25 Jiří

And I knew that the national organization should be the part of international organization [Tim: Mm-hmm] because that is going to set the better standards nationally if we can share with other countries.

00:28:43 Jiří

And efsli to me was one of the very big sources of inspiration.

00:28:48 Jiří

How is it actually happening in other countries?

00:28:52 Tim

Yeah.

00:28:53 Jiří

Because I could not create it inside of my head.

00:28:56 Tim

Right.

00:28:57 Jiří

I can do a lot of that, but… [both chuckling]

00:29:00 Jiří

And I did. But knowing that there are people who know more about that profession was for me the great source.

00:29:09 Jiří

And as I already mentioned, I like to go to the source as close as possible.

00:29:13 Jiří

So, for me, efsli was like the highest level of the source that I could get at the moment that was available to me [Tim: Yeah] on a certain level.

00:29:22 Tim

It's more about that structure and system that they already have in place that you could look to.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:29:33 Tim

Well, that was very interesting, wasn't it?

00:29:36 Tim

And we're not even through with the story.

00:29:38 Tim

A quick update, Jirka contacted me after the interview to tell me that he found the information about efsli.

00:29:47 Tim

The Chamber became an efsli member in 2001, and what's very special is that the United Kingdom, the UK, paid for the first two years of membership for the Chamber.

00:30:01 Tim

Now that's talking support, supporting not just individual interpreters, but a full organization in another country.

00:30:11 Tim

Now that's a good example.

00:30:13 Tim

Jirka took a big risk, a risk to improve.

00:30:18 Tim

He saw something was wrong, something didn't feel right.

00:30:21 Tim

We all need to be honest and open and clear when something is not right, when someone is wrong.

00:30:29 Tim

Jirka took a chance to change the system, to establish a professional organization where one did not exist at that time.

00:30:40 Tim

Purely a professional organization, nothing else.

00:30:45 Tim

But he had also seen and experienced what it means to be wrong from the example that Vesta gave him.

00:30:53 Tim

She was blunt, she was clear, without judging, without resentment towards him.

00:31:01 Tim

She merely spoke the truth in a way that nurtured and guided him.

00:31:06 Tim

It got the point across quickly and made an impression on the rest of his career.

00:31:12 Tim

We all need to have that same courage.

00:31:15 Tim

That doesn't mean we try to look for everyone who's wrong and all their mistakes and point out this sign's bad or that interpretation's horrible.

00:31:24 Tim

No, look at what she focused on.

00:31:27 Tim

She focused on what was important, the respect for the Deaf community, their experience, their knowledge, theirs.

00:31:38 Tim

We need to also focus on what's important, the people, the communities we serve, including the interpreting community that we are a part of, and we serve by supporting each other, by teaching each other, by mentoring and guiding each other, just as the UK gave a hand up to the Czech Republic when they needed it.

00:32:01 Tim

Well, this is just the beginning of the journey into Jirka's story, the Czech Republic's story of this profession.

00:32:09 Tim

So, until next time, keep calm.

00:32:12 Tim

Keep interpreting new roads for those who come.

00:32:16 Tim

I'll see you next week.

00:32:18 Tim

Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:32:55]