IW 179: Interview Jiri Janecek Part 1: Opening the Gated Community - The Birth of an Organization (CKTZJ)

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Today history is told. This is the 25th year anniversary of the founding of the Chamber of Czech Sign Language Interpreters. So, I interview the one person who started it all and brought together the first interpreters to establish the professional organization for Czech sign Language Interpreters.

Jiří Janeček tells the story from the beginning. Enjoy this part 1 and the 4 other episodes to come.

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Transcript

IW 179: Interview Jiri Janecek Part 1: Opening the Gated Community - The Birth of an Organization (CKTZJ)

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by British band Tears for Fears.

00:00:40 Tim

“It's my own design.”

00:00:42 Tim

“It's my own remorse.”

00:00:44 Tim

“Help me to decide. Help me make the most of freedom and of pleasure. Nothing ever lasts forever.”

00:00:54 Tim

“Everybody wants to rule the world.”

00:00:58 Tim

I may be stretching it a bit by using this quote, going away from the real meaning of the song, but for me it's about change.

00:01:08 Tim

It's hard to make changes to a system that has been in place for a while.

00:01:15 Tim

There's resistance, there's disbelief, and there's lots of struggle and energy to do a change.

00:01:24 Tim

Today we talk with a good friend of mine here in the Czech Republic, Jiři Janeček.

00:01:30 Tim

It has been 25 years this year since the Czech Chamber of sign language interpreters was founded.

00:01:38 Tim

And Jiři was the one who started it all. So today we're going to find out how he made these changes in a system that was already there. Get ready for the interesting story of how it all started here in the Czech Republic.

00:01:58 Tim

Let's get started.

ú

00:02:04 Tim

Today, my guest is Jiři Janeček from the Czech Republic. He has been many things amongst his career choices and career paths. He's been a financial manager, a computer analyst and now he owns his own Pilates studio for the rich and famous in the beautiful city of Prague.

00:02:25 Tim

But today, we're going to focus on his experience as a Czech sign language interpreter and what that entails throughout the history here in the Czech Republic. So, let's welcome my good friend Jiři Janeček. Let me call you Jirka. So, I don't butcher your name anymore. Welcome.

00:02:43 Jiři

That's OK. Hello. Thank you very much and thank you for having me.

00:02:47 Tim

Please pronounce your name correctly for the world to hear it in a nice.

00:02:53 Jiři

Jiři Janeček.

00:02:55 Tim

When I first came to the Czech Republic in 2006, you and I had already met, at least on the phone before I'd moved here, talking to each other about what's happening and so forth. And I learned several things about the Czech interpreting profession in those first few weeks.

00:03:16 Tim

One of which is that you were one of the founders for the Czech Sign language interpreting organization called the Chamber of Czech Sign Language interpreters.

00:03:26 Tim

Before we get into the details of history, let's talk about.

00:03:31 Jiři

“His-story.”

00:03:32 Tim

Yes, his story. Let's talk about… you.

00:03:38 Tim

Specifically, let's talk about the interpreting profession here. When you were first starting, how did you get started as a sign language interpreter and why?

00:03:48 Jiři

I started because I felt that what's going around me is not fair.

00:03:54 Jiři

That was like my one and big main reason. And I realized that what's going on doesn't make sense to me. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:04:05 Jiři

Because I was a person who, and I'm still the person who likes to be as good as possible in whatever profession I am. And…

00:04:21 Jiři

There is a step before me becoming interpreter that is important.

00:04:25 Jiři

I learned Czech sign language out of necessity, because I had a boyfriend ah, that was my long-term partner.

00:04:36 Jiři

We started with just writing sentences on the paper because we didn't have a common language. [Tim: chuckling: Yeah] So I decided that that doesn't work. He's not going to start speaking and hearing, so it's going to be me who will start to sign. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:04:58 Jiři

And it was… It's actually it's actually describing the whole situation, then later in the Czech Republic, uh, because in a, on a minor scale, it was happening between two of us as well. [Tim: Mm-hmm] I wanted to learn his language. 

00:05:15 Jiři

And the stuff that he was teaching me I realized later is not his language. [Tim: hmm]

00:05:22 Jiři

He, he taught me the stuff that he thought that me, as a hearing person should learn.

00:05:32 Jiři

Because that's the proper way how he should communicate with me.

00:05:39 Jiři

So, he basically adjusted to me as a hearing person with his way of communication and that way of communication, he started to teach me.

00:05:52 Jiři

So, we've learned what then I later understood was something like a signed Czech based on a Czech grammar with even the signs that the Deaf people don't use actually. [chuckles] [Tim: Yeah] So that, that whole thing that I have learned, and I became quite proud that I'm learning it, and it was good. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And then I realized that some other people understand me, but I don't understand them when they talk in between themselves.

00:06:27 Jiři

So uh, that, that, that whole thing was quite unclear to me at first. I didn't… I didn't understand why is that happening.

00:06:35 Jiři

That was something very unclear. I like system. I like rules. I like to have clarity in like any field that I am. And it was like completely unclear to me.

00:06:46 Tim

Did it feel like you just weren't good enough, that you just didn't know the language good enough? Or did you see something else?

00:06:55 Jiři

I first thought that it's my fault.

00:06:57 Tim

Yeah.

00:06:58 Jiři

I, I first thought that this is my fault because I was completely “cutted” out from any conversation that was happening inside of the community inside between, for example, my partner and his parents. That was like very big thing because when I was “introducted”, I started to sign to his parents.

00:07:20 Jiři

They talked to me. They didn't want to use the sign [Tim: ahh] any version of the sign because I was hearing and that's what is happening that the Deaf people are trying to talk to a hearing person. [Tim: Yeah] Yeah. So that was the first thing. Then there was that encouragement from my partner's side to his parents like, “Sign. He can sign. So, you can sign.” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:07:44 Jiři

So, we were signing, but there were signs together with talking. [Tim: Hmm, yeah] That was the next step that I that experienced.

00:07:57 Jiři

Which I thought that that's basically how we are going to do it for the future. But at any time, they had any conversation between themselves, I had no idea what's going on. [Tim: hmm]

00:08:11 Jiři

It was not clear to me it looked; I think it's the same thing… I, I don't speak Chinese, and it was the same thing I did not…

00:08:20 Jiři

I was not able to differentiate any words or any signs. It was just smooth flow of unrecognizable movements to me. [Tim: Yeah] Yeah.

00:08:35 Jiři

So, at that time I realized, OK, I'm doing something wrong, and we had like big discussions like teach me the way how you talk, and he didn't know how to do it.

00:08:48 Jiři

Because he was like, “That's complicated and it depends on the person and…”

00:08:53 Tim

Hmm.

00:08:54 Jiři

And then I was like, “OK, so where, where are some rules for that? If you speak differently with every person, how do I know, like, what type? (For me at the time) What type of language I should use or how does it, how does it work?” Very confusing. Very, very confusing.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:09:14 Tim

I know what's not confusing, how to support the show. Go to the show notes, click on the link, support the show. So support the history, the tips and the stories of interpreters like you. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:09:29 Tim

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is about the same time when academia in the Czech Republic was starting to analyze Czech sign language. Or was it before then?

00:09:40 Jiři

I think that it was happening, but I was not aware of it. [Tim: Sure. Yeah] I didn't know, but I think it was before. It was before because my partner was one of the first students [Tim: Mm-hmm] in academic field who went to the program. And that was happening after that.

00:09:58 Jiři

There was, yeah, it was before. It was before because he was attending the school before his university, so it was… How is it called?

00:10:09 Tim

Like high school.

00:10:10 Jiři

Yeah, high school, yeah, he was attending high school. It was the end of the high school.

00:10:14 Tim

OK.

00:10:15 Jiři

So uh, it was before that program was open, I guess.

00:10:19 Tim

In the program you're meeting at Charles University.

00:10:22 Jiři

Yes. At the Charles University. Yeah. Yeah. As as much as I recall.

00:10:28 Jiři

Yeah, it was before or I was not aware of it.

00:10:31 Jiři

So, I decided that I have to learn it.

00:10:34 Jiři

And that this is not going to work because my partner cannot be my teacher. Actually. [Tim: yeah]

00:10:40 Jiři

I realized well, I should go somewhere where they have that knowledge more structured.

00:10:46 Jiři

And I will learn it there. [Tim chuckling]

00:10:48 Jiři

So, I went to what was called Czech sign language course that was basically the same thing.

00:10:59 Tim

Same thing as what he was teaching you first.

00:11:02 Jiři

It was signed Czech again. It was a signing based on a Czech grammar mainly.

00:11:07 Jiři

And now it's going to be connected to the interpreters…

00:11:12 Jiři

When I realized that I wanted to have something more advanced, which I thought, I realized I have to go to hearing people.

00:11:21 Tim

Hmm.

00:11:21 Jiři

I have to go to hearing people. They’re, who are CODAs mainly, [Tim: yeah] interpreters.

00:11:32 Jiři

They were usually the part of the organization, Deaf Organization, working for them. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:11:38 Tim

Like the social organizations?

00:11:41 Jiři

Yes.

00:11:43 Jiři

It sounds very confusing because it was confusing. [Tim chuckles]

00:11:46 Jiři

It was confusing. I was not clear about where should I go? [Tim: yeah]

00:11:51 Jiři

So, I have found some people. But they were looking at me as a person who's like an intruder [Tim: hmm], like, “What do you want? Why do you want that?”

00:12:06 Jiři

They were giving me that attitude… Why?

00:12:11 Tim

Were they thinking you were going to take over their jobs as an interpreter or?

00:12:16 Jiři

It felt like I am intruder in their family.

00:12:21 Jiři

This is how it felt. That they had connection, very deep connection with the Deaf people. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:12:28 Tim

Sure.

00:12:29 Jiři

They felt that they are above the Deaf people, that they are superior [Tim: Mm-hmm] To them, because they were the middle person between them and the rest of the world.

00:12:41 Tim

Yeah.

00:12:42 Jiři

And they were the ones they were able to talk to them, the way they communicate with them, the way how the Deaf people communicate.

00:12:51 Tim

Right.

00:12:52 Jiři

And then there was a, in their mind, there was something else that they were using for interpreting.

00:13:01 Jiři

Because the Deaf people have to be educated so they are able to live in a hearing society.

00:13:08 Tim

Hmm. I see.

00:13:09 Jiři

So, what they were willing to teach me was that part of how to do it so I could educate the Deaf people as well.

00:13:20 Tim

So, this is how your partner was also viewing it because that's the way he saw it.

00:13:26 Jiři

Yeah, it was kind of like an upscale version of a communication [Tim: Mm-hmm] that is happening between Deaf people and hearing people. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:13:38 Jiři

But those interpreters, CODAs were able to go from the upscale to something that in their minds was very often simplistic, primitive. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:13:52 Jiři

But it was necessary so Deaf people understand, because they are not able to understand proper language.

00:14:02 Tim

Right. What era was this in the 90s?

00:14:05 Jiři

25 years ago. [Tim: Yeah] Or more than 25 years ago. [Tim: Yeah] So, yeah, do the math because I don’t…[both laugh]

00:14:14 Tim

Well, 25 years ago it would be 2000, so I'm assuming it was before then. So somewhere in the mid-90s.

00:14:22 Jiři

I was quite fast in making a decision that I'm going to change it somehow because… [Tim chuckling]

00:14:30 Jiři

Interesting part: I've learned from those people some signs, some something. Then I realized, OK, there are some organizations they have like... There are like two main organizations.

00:14:42 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:14:43 Jiři

I visited one of them. I said I would like to be an interpreter.

00:14:48 Jiři

And they always told me you cannot be interpreter because you don't have interpreter’s ID.

00:14:55 Jiři

I said, “What is interpreter’s ID? What is it?”

00:14:58 Jiři

And it was like a small something same way as you have a ID card, or if you have uh, if you have something, if you want to go to the tram. [both laughing]

00:15:10 Jiři

So, you show something or driver's license or something like that, but it was not even called license. It was like a card. And they were interpreters on different levels. It looked like when you had the basic wizard, so you are basic level of being wizard, and then you have, uh, better, uh, spells so you will then go to another level and...

00:15:32 Tim

…another level of wizard. [both chuckling]

00:15:35 Jiři

Yeah. I'd say, “OK, so now I will become the wizard.”

00:15:40

Who cannot do much. [both still chuckling]

00:15:41 Tim

Uh-huh.

00:15:42 Tim

You're “The Apprentice wizard.”

00:15:43 Jiři

Yeah, I was like apprentice. Yeah, that, that’s how it felt.

00:15:48 Jiři

So, they were trying. They were trying somehow. They were trying the, the best way and I believe[Tim: Mm-hmm]  that this was the best way as they believed that this is how it should be, that it has to have some structure, some levels.

00:16:00 Jiři

It felt like I'm not able to get into that community as well because they were keeping everything very, very separate from me and probably others as well.

00:16:15 Jiři

Because they've been like the…

00:16:17 Jiři

uhh…

00:16:18 Tim

The gatekeepers.

00:16:20 Jiři

Yes, that's the word. Yeah, the gatekeepers.

00:16:24 Jiři

And they decided if they would give me some “mercy”, [Tim chuckling] you know? And they said like, “Well now you are able to do something”, yeah, to progress or, “Hmm, you are not good enough. You have to do it again.”

00:16:41 Tim

Yeah.

00:16:42 Jiři

And I was actually surprisingly accepting that, even though it's completely against my nature. [Tim: yeah]

00:16:51 Jiři

Because I felt this is how it is.

00:16:54 Jiři

This is how I have to do it. [chuckling]I have to humiliate myself, basically [Tim: Yeah] somehow to be the part of that community.

00:17:04 Tim

It sounds like you were at a… Well, the Czech Republic was at a… an era where Czech sign language had not been officially recognized as a, a true language.

00:17:17 Tim

And therefore, it was still in the mentality of the Deaf are disabled. They need help. They need to be shown the way, the hearing way or the true language, but they just can't get there. So, we need to help them in some way. So just like in the US or any other country...

00:17:38 Tim

Those first interpreters are CODAs, and they have a lot of power. Whether they know it or not, they think they're doing the right thing, and you were stepping on their toes. It sounds like you were coming in there at a time where things were starting to change in the recognition of the language, but it had not yet.

00:17:58 Tim

You're right, it sounds very confusing.

00:18:00

It was.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:18:05 Tim

You've mentioned at the very beginning you didn't like things not being fair. Something was not right. And is this what you're meaning or is there? Was there something else that was kind of not fair that pushed you over the edge of not accepting it and saying I'm going to open the gate myself.

00:18:23 Jiři

The one thing that was not fair is:

00:18:27 Jiři

The Deaf people were in a position like not being able to live in the world.

00:18:36 Jiři

That was the, that was the understanding from the interpreters like, “the Deaf people are not able. They are not able, and we have to help them to be able to live in a world. We are going to do it in a way that we”- company them(?) “accompany them.” That's the word. [Tim: Yeah] “We will go with them somewhere and we will help them there to get what they need.”

00:19:02 Jiři

“And the way how we are going to do it is that we will communicate with them, so they understand. So, we will explain them everything. We will say we will explain them how it, how is it in the outer world that they don't have access to.”

00:19:16 Jiři

“And then with that information, I will be the one who goes to the outer world and discuss with the outer world what's needed, and then I go back and explain it and simplify it to the Deaf people because they would not understand it usually.” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:19:34 Jiři

And all of that, I think it was based by the personal experience of many of those people seeing their parents, that they are actually not able to succeed in that hearing world.

00:19:48 Jiři

And they were not able to go and make any basic errands, anything basically. They could not go out there and they did not understand why. They didn't, they just didn't get it. [Tim: Mm-hmm] It was completely like going to foreign country that you have no idea how the world works there. And you are trying to get the building permit for example, but you don't even know how is it with the ownership of the land, all of that.

00:20:22 Jiři

So, completely different way how you live, because they had their own, I mean the Deaf people, they were very happy within their community. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:20:33 Jiři

But they accepted that they are not able to be outside of that community and they need those interpreters because they are the people who have the knowledge and ability to connect them to the outer world there. [Tim: yeah]

00:20:55 Jiři

So, they were partially scared of them. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:20:59 Jiři

Because the part of the dynamics is, if you don't behave as you should, we are not going to provide what you need. Yeah. [Tim: yeah]

00:21:10 Jiři

Or it was shown to them basically just by the attitude.

00:21:14 Jiři

And then there was that, for me, the “bossy” part I know this is how it is going to be. [Tim: yeah]

00:21:22 Jiři

And they were just, “OK, so, well, yeah, probably.”

00:21:27 Jiři

The level of uncertainty was high in the Deaf community. [Tim: yeah]

00:21:34 Jiři

Because the interpreter was the source of approval as well. If it is right or wrong, whatever they want, the Deaf  people.

00:21:45 Jiři

And I went there. I wanted to learn the language. I wanted to first learn the language.

00:21:53 Jiři

Then I became the subject of approval as well. [Tim: hmm]

00:21:57 Jiři

Whether I'm going to...

00:22:00 Jiři

And when I'm eligible actually to do that. [Tim: yeah] Then there was that interrogation. Why and what is your reason and how are you going to use it and why do you need that? all of it. [Tim: hmm]

00:22:17 Jiři

Then I have learned that some of the people in the interpreters’ community who had a lot of power were actually not able to sign at all.

00:22:29 Jiři

That was for me very surprising.

00:22:31 Jiři

They did not feel the need to sign.

00:22:35 Jiři

Because if they just use some gestures and they talk that way, they will elevate the Deaf people so they will be able to be in the hearing community and feel better.

00:22:48 Tim

Hmm.

00:22:49 Jiři

Very confusing again, I was like this doesn't make sense!

00:22:53 Tim

And these were the ones in the power in these organizations, you mean?

00:22:56 Jiři

Yes, and I did not understand. I was completely not getting it because I had a partner who I felt like is complete person like there is equal. There is no... I don't see him as, uh, he's like in high school. [Tim: right] Why would he be anyhow different than me? We don't have the same language.

00:23:22 Jiři

Then we realized, OK, yeah, the language that he's using with me is not the same that he's using with his friends, which felt completely natural. And it was the part of the belief: Yes, this is how it is. With the hearing people we use something different than among us. [Tim: Mm-hmm] So OK, then I have to go and learn it somewhere else.

00:23:41 Jiři

Which was not happening because what I was learning was something that I knew already from him. [Tim: Yeah Yeah] I was like, this is not the way how they talk between themselves. This is again, me just being more encouraged to learn the way that I already knew it's not working, [Tim: Yeah] because I don't understand them. [Tim chuckling]

00:24:04 Tim

So how does it change?

00:24:07 Jiři

Then I realized that getting the license from someone who is not licensed to give the license. [Tim chuckling] It was just because they said that they are the ones who knew more than the rest is ridiculous.

00:24:22 Jiři

It did not feel right because I at that time already had certifications, education, that was kind of standardized. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And it was not based on the opinion of the person who's educating me. There was some curriculum.

00:24:43 Jiři

There was some standards that I have to reach.

00:24:48 Tim

Yeah.

00:24:49 Jiři

And then I was on that level, or I've been recognized to be able to do my profession independently, for example.

00:24:59 Jiři

And… but it was not just that person who would tell me, yes, this is enough, or this is not good enough.

00:25:07 Jiři

All of that was to me very unclear. [Tim: Yeah] And I realized this is not how the hearing interpreters are working, because I already had some experience with using interpreters and then when I started to search for interpreting, I have found that there is a vast offering in a hearing world for hearing interpreters for spoken languages. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:25:39 Jiři

There is a lot of structure, a lot of certification bodies that they usually follow some common guidelines [Tim: Yeah] and respecting the same standard, even though they were different organizations... [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:25:57 Jiři

They still...

00:25:59 Jiři

If you would succeed in their program, you would be completely comparable in your level of education with the other people who succeeded from the other companies or other organizations. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:26:14 Jiři

So, I realized, that if there are other professional organizations that they have something that is called professional Chamber.

00:26:27 Jiři

There’s a Chamber for lawyers.

00:26:30 Jiři

I always call it Chamber. Yeah. [Tim: OK] So, I like that work because it looked independent from then those organizations, because the Chamber, regardless of who was part of what, if you are in this profession, you are part of the Chamber. There was a medical chamber for doctors.

00:26:51 Jiři

Yeah, it doesn't matter where they work, they are all, because they are in the profession, they are part of the chamber.

00:26:57 Tim

Yeah. So, it's a national level organization.

00:27:01 Jiři

Yeah. And it's professional organization.

00:27:03 Jiři

It's a professional organization.

00:27:06 Jiři

I did not think that I'm going to set the standard of education or anything like that.

00:27:11 Jiři

So, it was at that time a little bit naive and at the same time a little bit clever that I realized. OK, let's call it Chamber. It will sound very, very official. Yeah. [Tim: Yeah] So, this is how the Chamber [both chuckling] got the name because it looked like a professional body. Yeah. [Tim: Yeah]

00:27:32 Tim

So, you were copying the title of those professional organizations, but in reality, you knew that you weren't going to have the educational level.

00:27:42 Jiři

I knew that I have nothing. [Tim: Yeah] But I knew that the first thing that we have to do is be part of the system somehow but separately, because otherwise the only way how to be the part of the system is to become the member of those organization that I already mentioned. [Tim: yeah]

00:28:04 Jiři

The, the ones that they are mostly related and usually the part of the Deaf organization with the CODA people.

00:28:13 Tim

So, if you're wanting to start this new chamber and all of these interpreters that you are in touch with already had their own organizations, and they already looked at you as a newcomer, someone who's trying to change things, how did you get anyone to get involved with you to set up this new chamber?

00:28:34 Jiři

I…

00:28:35 Jiři

…didn't…

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:28:41 Tim

Yes, you're right. It was just getting good. But as you know, it'll get even better next week. Let's talk about what we can learn about the story so far. Well, there are many things we can learn from this and compare it to what we went through in each of our countries.

00:29:00 Tim

The biggest and the first point that we need to consider is why? Why did something need to change? That is something we should consider before we even think of changing the system or whatever. Again, we go back to interpreters’ decisions. Why? What are the consequences?

00:29:21 Tim

What interested me most is that Jirka was seeing the whole system through what he perceived as the Deaf eyes.

00:29:29 Tim

He could see the system was accepted from the interpreters and the Deaf community, not necessarily that it was good or bad, but he could see that both were focused inside the system that was already there.

00:29:47 Tim

He was coming in as an outsider, as a new perspective.

00:29:52 Tim

Which is why I think now in the profession, in many codes of conduct, we have the tenet which says we should respect each other, new interpreters, older interpreters, learning from each other, teaching each other how things were, how things are, and how they can be, because it's all about perspective. Sometimes we get stuck in a way of thinking.

00:30:23 Tim

New interpreters questioning why we do something this way, why we make decisions this way. All of those questions make us question the system, question the rules, question ourselves, which leads to change, which leads to improvement.

00:30:43 Tim

The more we are questioned about what we're doing, the stronger our belief in what we're doing becomes or it comes crumbling down when we realize maybe this is not the way. The questions help us evaluate to make sure that we're on the right track.

00:31:02 Tim

And the last thing for this week is that we should remember our clients are people, they're equal to us. They quote-unquote, they should have their dignity. They should have liberty, which means they have the right to decide for themselves.

00:31:22 Tim

When they have the information, when they have the interpretation and the ability to ask questions or to answer questions, to be involved, they also have the liberty to make their own decisions, even when those decisions don't align with our own or with the profession’s.

00:31:46 Tim

Jirka’s story first is just fascinating, to learn the history, how the organization started, and it can also give us many things to think about. So, until next time, keep calm.

00:32:01 Tim

Keep opening the gates of interpreting, I'll see you next week.

00:32:07 Tim

Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:32:44]