IW 170: SPOTLIGHT Anna Michaels Part 2: My Phone Works - On Call High Risk Management

"I have to pay $1,000 just to tell you it's $0?? Yay!"

Anna Michaels and I finish our rant, I mean, discussion about the impact ASL/English interpreters may not realize they are making when they work outside the U.S. Laugh with us. Learn our perspective living outside the U.S. schema.

Enjoy.

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Transcript

IW 170: SPOTLIGHT Anna Michaels Part 2: My Phone Works - On Call High Risk Management

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:36 Tim

And now the quote of the day by John Lennon.

00:00:41 Tim

“Living is easy with eyes closed. Misunderstanding all you see.”

00:00:48 Tim

It's hard to know what we don't know. Being ignorant is sometimes blissful, but it can cause misunderstandings everywhere. And today Anna and I finish our conversation about how different it is to be an ASL English interpreter.

00:01:08 Tim

Outside of the US, not that it's a hard thing, physically or emotionally.

00:01:14 Tim

What is hard is the unknown, the ignorance that we have. We talk about the risk that we can put ourselves in as interpreters, as sign language interpreters when we don't know enough about a situation, or if we think we know when we don't.

00:01:35 Tim

We talk about how meaning, well, is more meaningful in these situations.

00:01:42 Tim

Language itself has nuances that we didn't normally think about when we were in the US. Our role as a sign language interpreter has changed as well. And we get into some of the nitty gritty difficulties that we have as Americans living abroad when it comes to our own privacy and taxes. Uh, OK, if you're still listening after I said the word taxes, great.

00:02:15 Tim

Because we hope that you will open your eyes a little more and have less misunderstandings about this entire beautiful life outside the US.

00:02:27 Tim

So, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:02:33 Tim

So, if we can go back to the point about risk.

00:02:35 Anna

Hmm.

00:02:36 Tim

And how you just talked about if something happens when a pop-up interpreter is here, there have been a handful of occurrences for me working as an interpreter here, where emergency services had to be there. At that point, I was using ASL, but the language that the emergency crew were using was the native language because they didn't speak English. Luckily, when it has been Czech, if I didn't understand, I can clarify in Czech and then go back to ASL.

00:03:06 Tim

Pop up interpreter? Would have a difficult time then.

00:03:10 Tim

And that complicates things when we're talking time is of the essence.

00:03:14 Anna

In emergency situations, when they are time critical.

00:03:17 Tim

I don't think that comes up too much in the thought of. Well, this is just another job. I just happen to be in another place.

00:03:25 Anna

But you're on call and I think that's forgotten. You are on call if you're working away.

00:03:34 Anna

Whether I'm working in Italy or in the United States, interpreters working in London, it doesn't matter if you're away from home and you are, it might not say it in your contract. It might not be what is explicitly stated of you, but if an emergency situation were to happen, you would be the one to interpret it.

00:03:48 Tim

Yeah. And it's not just the emergency things. It's late at night. Someone is locked out of their room and or they want to have a meeting after the conference [Anna: Yeah] because it's a business connected thing or whatever.

00:04:00 Tim

Who are they going to call. It's going to be us.

00:04:02 Anna

I mean, it's happened to me where my Deaf clients I'm liaison interpreting for them. So, I'm just paired with them. And so, they have to step out. The meeting carries on, so I disappear. So, the organizers there suddenly there's no interpreter because the Deaf person needs to go use me to make a phone call to sort out their flight booking that's just been cancelled. Right? [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:04:23 Anna

Yeah, you're on call.

00:04:24 Tim

Yeah. It's also different in that you and I, we’re used to traveling. We know how it works. OK. I go to the gate; I go to this place. Oh, if I have a problem, I'd go here. If I need to buy something. I know which shop to go to. Oh, it's not called a pharmacy.

00:04:40 Anna

Ohh my train got cancelled.

00:04:42 Tim

Yes. What do I do?

00:04:43 Anna

What do I do now? My flight- [Tim chuckles] My flights been cancelled? What do I do? I, I mean, it happened to me. I had a train booked between Berlin and, and London. The whole entire train system failed me. I just, you know, we know what to do. I, I got on another train. I went to the airport, and I bought a flight [Tim: Mm-hmm] for under €100 to get home.

00:05:02 Tim

Exactly.

00:05:03 Anna

And we just, we don't trouble anybody with the fixing of the problems that, that come with European travel. We don't, we don't bother anybody. We just get on with it and fix things.

00:05:11 Tim

Yeah. Public transportation. We're like, OK, I gotta get a ticket. Oh, this is the one that you have to validate [Anna: yep, yep] when you get on the bus or I have to go to the front of the bus to enter or I go from the side, you know, all of those things.

00:05:25 Anna

They don't phase us at all.

00:05:27 Tim

Yeah, exactly. We have the apps that we know where to go for a tram or metro or…

00:05:30 Anna

Our phones work.

00:05:31

Our [chuckling]…Our phones work exactly. [both laugh]

00:05:36 Tim

All of those little things that we don't have to think about.

00:05:38 Anna

Therefore, they don't affect our work. Because we don't have to think about them, they consume none of our brain power. They consume none of our time. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:05:46 Anna

We are completely when we work in this context, we are there as a professional with just as everybody else that's involved is [Tim: right] because none of these things are affecting our work. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:05:56 Tim

We understand how to greet people in a (how's the best way to say) in a least intrusive way.

00:06:03 Anna

Unobtrusive maybe?

00:06:05 Tim

Unobtrusive way that, that, that's a good word. Yeah. I like, I like the complicated way I said it.

00:06:10 Anna

I also like it. [Tim chuckling] But no, I knew what you were going. I know what you mean. We do greet people in a way that we are, we are not the focus.

00:06:19 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:06:20 Anna

We don't fade into backgrounds. That's not what we're attempting to do, but there's this is, and this is something that I definitely only learned a number of years after working in this context heavily.

00:06:32 Anna

You know, when we're talking about the differences between working in the context of the United States and here the sense of role is very different. [Tim: Yes!] I had to reapply and relearn about my role in interpreted situations.

00:06:47 Tim

Yes.

00:06:48 Anna

Because it's not the same, and especially if you think of it like this, often times this org- you might be the first time that any organization- anybody in this organization has ever seen this work happen. [Tim: Yes] That's never going to be the case in the United States. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:07:03 Anna

That's how it is. So you…

00:07:05 Anna

How many times have you been to a job where you are the first sign language interpreter that they have ever seen? [both slightly chuckle]

00:07:12 Tim

Yes, it can be an international conference where they're all about inclusivity and, “OH! We've never had a sign-” I’m like, “You've never had a sign language interpreter and you're all about what?”

00:07:24 Tim

Those are the things that, well, pop up and we just roll with it because like you said, we're not taking the mental effort to figure out how to even get around the city, how to- where to put our things, where to get some food, how to navigate a grocery store. [Anna: Mm-hmm]

00:07:44 Tim

And get the food that we want, even though we don't may not speak that language.

00:07:48 Anna

Absolutely.

00:07:49 Tim

What does shampoo actually look like? You know, or toothpaste? Little things like that. We don't worry about. When I used to travel before moving here, I was always bringing everything with me.

00:08:01 Anna

Absolutely. With a - in a very large rolling suitcase, [both laughing] which I haven't used in probably 10 years.

00:08:09 Anna

I, I’ve, I, I travel very differently now. I show up with a backpack and it slides under a chair, and I'm done.

00:08:14 Tim

And yeah, exactly. And if I need anything…

00:08:17 Anna

I know how to get it.

00:08:18 Tim

Exactly I know and it's not a schema that is stressful in making my job less effective or efficient.

00:08:26 Anna

But these are the, the, these things that we're talking about, they're, they're so… You and I, we…

00:08:30 Anna

If you could see our faces, the amount of, like, acknowledgement that's happening between me and Tim is so high because these are just things that make us laugh because they're so familiar [Tim chuckling] and it's because we've seen it. When people pop up as an interpreter, we've seen the opposite of what we're talking about. [Tim: Yes]

00:08:47 Anna

And going back to when these organizations think that they're saving money. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And, and that that's the best decision what they make. It is so difficult as the person that's responding to them, to explain all of the intangibles that they get when using interpreters that live here.

00:09:06 Tim

Yeah.

00:09:07 Anna

And I don't think they monetize that. It is monetary as well because we probably cost less because we have less things that [Tim: Mm-hmm] that… I’ve never done a spreadsheet on it, but… [laughing]

00:09:18 Tim

Exactly. It's nice because depending on where the job is within Europe, I can take a train which is [Anna: Mm-hmm] or a plane and it's much less than trying to travel from the U.S.

00:09:33 Anna

Absolutely.

00:09:34 Tim

Much.

00:09:35 Tim

And the fact that we know how to navigate that because we know which websites to go to to get those tickets, or an app on our phone. We know if I just get there, I can buy a ticket and I know how to buy it when I get there.

00:09:48 Anna

And it would be the same price. Yeah. Which, when is it the same price? When is it better to buy it beforehand? [Tim: Mm-hmm] How do I avoid getting - if I need to change it how do I avoid, you know, buying a new ticket and not refunding this one. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:10:00 Anna

And cancellations and, and we know how - We just, we navigate that all the time in our daily life. So, it's just part of our, you know, our schema.

00:10:09 Anna

We know it. It's...

00:10:11 Tim

It's [laughing] even, even the, the little thing of going to a coffee shop and knowing what to order.

00:10:17 Anna

Yes! [big laughter from both]

00:10:21 Anna

Oh! Oh! [sighs] I won't name them. I will not name them. Of course I will respect their privacy completely, [laughter in her voice] but I went into a coffee shop at one point with a, with an interpreter who had been booked as my coworker who was a pop-up interpreter, and they asked for a regular coffee. And when it came back, black and unsweetened…

00:10:40 Anna

They, they, they were... just like fell apart. And I'm thinking [both laughing hard] believe me, the barista was confused what you were asking for as well.

00:10:51 Tim

Yeah, yeah. Even just having a meal at a hotel or a dinner with the conference, [Anna knowingly: Hmm] knowing how to navigate the food without looking at it and having a conversation about it for 10 minutes with everyone around you.

00:11:07 Anna

Take- You know, taking all the eyes on you [Tim: exactly] because you're talking about what's happening and the food and the, the servers and the service and the this and that [Tim: Mm-hmm] and the tipping culture and… And not having those conversations like as if they're novel like as if these things are novel because they might, you know, they're novel for some people, but nobody els- you know.

00:11:27 Tim

Yes, and even if it's novel for me, I don't say, “Ohh. This is totally… I've never seen… I don't go into that mode. [Anna: No] That traveler tourist mode.

00:11:35 Anna

Because you're not a tourist. [Tim: Exactly] You're not there to be a tourist. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:11:39 Tim

After so many years here, I know what it's like in each of these countries. I know if I go up north, it's going to be a nice hardy [chuckles] breakfast. [Anna: chuckles]

00:11:50 Tim

And if I go down South, it's going to be a little sweet and espresso and you're done.

00:11:55 Anna

Yeah. Unless you are in an international posh hotel, yeah.

00:11:58 Tim

Like we said, we're used to it. We know it. It's part of our system that we can navigate without having the energy taken away from us as a tourist. And it's just like going to a conference, you get that “conference-itus” as you get all that energy and everything. And then when it's over, you're exhausted. For us…

00:12:15 Anna

We can't allow it to exhaust us because it's what we do every day. [both laughing]

00:12:23 Tim

As a pop-up interpreter. It's exhausting.

00:12:25 Anna

And surely that must impact the work itself.

00:12:27 Tim

Yeah.

00:12:28 Anna

Inevitably, it would.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:12:31 Tim

And if you would like to make an even bigger impact a positive one, please Buy Me A Coffee. Click on the links in the show notes and help me bring more episodes like this. Thank you.

00:12:44 Tim

Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:12:46 Anna

Shall we talk about taxes?

00:12:48

Yeah, I was just thinking…[hard laughter, sighs]

00:12:53 Tim

So, we've talked about pay, standard pay, and all of that. One of the things that also affects, but in a completely different way affects these pop-up interpreters, and that's taxes.

00:13:06 Tim

Most Americans do not know or do not realize that Americans living abroad we are required to file taxes every year, whether we make money in the US or not, and if we make over a certain threshold in our home country, we still have to pay taxes in the US, even though we're paying taxes here.

00:13:25 Anna

And we have to declare all of our foreign bank accounts and the amount in all of them. [Tim: Yes] Every year.

00:13:32 Tim

And the investments, any investments we have here, we have- that has to also be declared. And it's not only from us, but each of these institutions, the banks, the investment companies, any financial institution, they are obligated through laws and treaties to send documentation to the IRS Tax Commission in the U.S. – about us!

00:14:00 Tim

So, everything that we have here is open public information for them, no privacy whatsoever, and that brings up many problems for US.

00:14:08 Tim

One, it took me a while to get a bank here to accept me, to actually give me a bank account because I was an American. They're like, we don't want to fill out those that paperwork to them.

00:14:19 Tim

Finally, I, I, I have one of course, and more banks are opening up to it, but they still don't like it.

00:14:26 Tim

And I have to sign “my life away”, I mean, my privacy away, which is odd because we have GDPR here in Europe, but for some reason that one aspect of the tax system in the US doesn't comply to it.

00:14:43 Tim

And for me, I don't think it happens for every American. It depends on the countries. But for me, I cannot accept jobs from the US like doing online work or VRS/VRI. So, online phone calls or video remote interpreting, I can't do that because I would have to fill tax papers in the US and get paid from the US.

00:15:07 Tim

I would then lose all of my healthcare insurance here. They would just drop me like a rock, which means I would have no healthcare.

00:15:14 Tim

And so, I'm not allowed to have that extra income. Because many Americans think, “Oh, I'll just be a nomad, and I'll fly and live over there and I'll work online from in the US.” And I'm like, “Yeah, I can't do that.”

00:15:26 Anna

And additionally…

00:15:28 Anna

There's a regulation regarding the type of investments that you can have [Tim: Yes] as an American citizen, and the law was written for people living in the US, but it applies to anybody living anywhere. So, there are only certain types of investments that we can make so that greatly affects pensions. [Tim: Yes]

00:15:48 Anna

Yes, if I want to invest in a, in my pension, I have to be very, very careful about where that investment is going and what organizations I'm investing in, because there are some that are simply not allowed by the, by the American system. [Tim: Yeah] That also means I then have to have a financial investor who is aware of that and knows how to do it and…

00:16:12 Anna

I don't know about you, Tim, but the forms for filing your American taxes and finding someone who can assist you [Tim: Ah, yes!] do so from abroad, who understands not only that system, but the one you're living in and the different filing dates even, I mean…

00:16:31 Anna

The, the, the layers keep going. I could go on.

00:16:33 Tim

And on, yeah.

00:16:34 Anna

The amount of stuff [Tim: Mm-hmm] is intense.

00:16:39 Tim

It's stressful because it's every year and knowing the dates and trying to find, you know, everyone says, “Well, just file your taxes online.”

00:16:48 Anna

I can't file my taxes online and this is the strangest reason. I'm not allowed to file my taxes online because I…

00:16:56 Anna

My husband is not American, therefore does not have a Social Security number. [Tim: Mm-hmm] But I have children who are dependent, so I become the head of household and there's a complication on the online tax form regarding me being the head of household, but him not having a Social Security number. So, I have to file paper tax returns.

00:17:15 Tim

Yeah, that's insane. For me every time I filed online…

00:17:20 Anna

Like the E-file people.

00:17:21 Tim

Yeah, they may say. Ohh yes. We're for foreign addresses as well. Well, half the time. They won't take my address here.

00:17:29 Anna

And with two-factor authentication…

00:17:32 Tim

YES!

00:17:33 Anna

The ones that I've found even to file like extension forms or anything they require to you to receive a text message [Tim: Mm-hmm] for security, but they cannot send them to international numbers.

00:17:44 Anna

So, I cannot access my account nor the service because the two-factor authentication that they've chosen does not send me text messages.

00:17:53 Tim

Yeah. Even though they say they're foreign addresses.

00:17:56 Anna

Yes, even if the site or program or software specifically states on it that it works with, you can file your foreign tax. [Tim chuckling: yeah]

00:18:04 Anna

It's, it's, it's, it's the strangest thing. So, I literally for years, all of the years that I was an American citizen living abroad, [Tim: Mm-hmm] filed paper tax returns. [Tim: Ermm!]

00:18:15 Tim

And every year that I have filed, I usually file or I usually fill out forms from a handful of different sites to find the one that will actually accept it. Once they've accepted it, it usually comes back as, “Well, you also need to fill out this form, and you also need to fill out this form, or you also need to declare this, but we can't do that. You'll have to fill that in and print it and mail it.” I'm like, “What?!” [Anna chuckling]

00:18:42 Tim

Then why am I doing this online? I have to do all of these forms, declaring my bank accounts, [Anna: Yeah] tell you how much I have. Oh, and also my child, my wife – and… It gets very complicated very quickly.

00:18:56 Anna

Unless you want to pay someone, who's going to charge you… the latest figure I saw was over £1000 per year.

00:19:04 Tim

Yes.

00:19:05 Anna

To file a tax return that I owed no money on. [both laughing slightly]

00:19:09 Tim

Yes. Yes, exactly. I've done nothing in the US. I have no income in the US. I have no investments.

00:19:14 Anna

I'm underneath the tax threshold and…

00:19:17 Tim

Yeah. So, I only pay taxes here. All my benefits are here and but yet I have to pay $1000 to make sure it's done correctly.

00:19:25 Anna

Exactly because if I'm federal tax non-compliant the stated penalties are extortionate for me. I'm not independently wealthy. I cannot afford the penalties that they would charge me for being tax non-compliant, despite the fact that I owe zero tax. 

00:19:41 Tim

Exactly.

00:19:42 Anna

By filling out a form wrong, the number still staying zero and it even if I had filled it out right and the number would be 0, then I could be put in a position where I owe them 10s of thousands of dollars…

00:19:52 Tim

Yes!

00:19:52 Anna

…for being tax non-compliant. It's incredibly stressful and very complicated. And yeah, it's, it's hard.

00:19:59 Tim

Well, we know that the tax Commission in the US has a lot of power if we just make one mistake.

00:20:06 Tim

It's very hard every time I've tried to call them. Sometimes it's hard to get through.

00:20:12 Tim

Because of trying to call from here using Skype and now Skype is gone. So now how do I call there's so many difficulties to get through, especially if you have to wait an hour online. It's kind of complicated, especially when you think of the time zone difference.

00:20:30 Anna

Absolutely. The number of phone calls I've had to make after the hours of midnight [Tim: YES!] is, is, is just intense.

00:20:37 Tim

It's intense and all of that adds stress to us.

00:20:41 Tim

And we're thinking I have to do all of that, and I have to still make a living. And everything we've already talked about all of that kind of adds stress to living here. [Anna: Mm-hmm] So yes, I absolutely love living here and I love the culture. I love the people and my friends, my family here. But I think it's very, what's the word, punishing from the US tax system. [Anna: It's punitive]

00:21:04 Anna

And it's punitive. And it is that way intentionally, I believe, you know, the, the FBAR, the Federal Bank, Foreign Bank Account Reporting system. [Tim: Yeah] From my understanding was put in as a measure to reduce American citizens investments in foreign companies, and it regulates that, and so it feels punitive. It feels like I'm being punished by having chosen to live in another country and make my living and grow my life in another country. [Tim: Mm-hmm] The feeling is punitive. I can't put words in the mouths of the people who created it.

00:21:38 Anna

But it's really…

00:21:39 Anna

It has brought me quite a lot of sadness and stress.

00:21:43 Tim

Yeah. Yeah and…

00:21:45 Tim

It's ironic because people think, “Ohh the US, the land of freedom.”

00:21:51 Tim

And yet my privacy is denied.

00:21:53 Anna

It's nonexistent. [Tim: Yeah] And I should for, for the wonderful audience. I should also just mention if I've been using words that are in the past tense, I had renounced my American citizenship two years ago. So, I no longer hold American citizenship. And so, I no longer have these requirements on me, but the stress is persistent.

00:22:16 Anna

And the stress of whether even years after the fact, [Tim: Mm-hmm] if someone from the IRS is going to have a problem with me, which I can't, I've done, you know, I was federally tax compliant. I declared all of my things for the amount of years I had to. I did everything. This is, I think, a cultural thing from having grown up in the states. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:22:35 Anna

The fear and the stress of taxes, whereas for context in the UK, if you're an employee of a company and you don't hold any other work or you don't have any other income, you work for a company, you don't file tax.

00:22:49 Anna

At all. You don't. You never do. You don't have to do it because it's all just… People are not afraid of HMRC. Here you can call them. They'll talk to you. I mean, people resent taxes. People are gonna resent taxes for all of their lives. But… [Tim: Right] in every context. But the, the culture around tax here is very, very different.

00:23:08 Tim

Yeah, yeah, same here. It's a little different here for me because I'm only a resident and so I'm not a citizen of the Czech Republic. [Anna: hmm] For me, though, taxes are, are quite easy.

00:23:20 Tim

But not stressful. [Anna: No] I should say yes, I, I do use a Czech accountant to do my taxes for me and I think it costs $100. [Anna: Yeah] Maybe $75 each year.

00:23:32 Anna

Because it's simple, because it's not overly complicated, and so therefore they're not specialists and their job is not complicated and they're not at risk. So American accountant in the United States are, are taking a huge – They are the ones who are doing the job, like if they file for you and they do all that, the risk is now theirs. But you do pay them more in the States [Tim: Right] because of the level of risk, that culture isn't here. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:23:56 Anna

It's very different culture around tax.

00:23:59 Anna

Also, around policing, the culture of police here is very different. I often see the police in the UK and I, they're just the guys that you go to when you get lost and you need directions around the corner.

00:24:11 Anna

They'll have a chat with you and then point to where you need to go. Have a little chat, but this ties back into all of those things that exist in our cultural context. Now that we've been here for quite a long time, [Tim: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm] that just are… that are shared experience with all of the other participants in any interpreted interaction that live and reside in this context. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:24:32 Anna

Jokes will be made about these things, you know, and we'll laugh and get them.

00:24:36 Anna

And, ho-ho, wink-wink, nudge-nudge and we just… That's a part of our lived experience here, [Tim: Yeah, yeah] which again a pop-up interpreter wouldn't know, and that's no fault of theirs. That, that's just based on what you've seen and experienced your whole life. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:24:53 Tim

It just popped into my head. Ironically, one of the contexts from an American point of view.

00:25:00 Tim

We think of workshops. When I say the word workshop [Anna: Mm-hmm] everyone knows what that means in the US.

00:25:08 Tim

It means it can be kind of hands on. [Anna: Yep] It could be, “OK. Now you get in little groups and you, you do this activity or that activity” or maybe, “Ohh let's do an activity at the beginning to get to know one another.”

00:25:21 Anna

An icebreaker.

00:25:23 Tim

And here in the Czech Republic, that's not… really… done. And in the European context, it's rarely done.

00:25:29 Anna

You would not see that in England.

00:25:31 Tim

But it's something I know they say workshop and like, OK, it's going to be more kind of a, a lecture, Q&A.

00:25:36 Anna

It's a meeting. Yeah. Presentation. [Tim: uh-huh]

00:25:40 Anna

This is not interactive and your contributions from the audience [both laughing] are not being paid attention to.

00:25:47 Tim

Right. And that's part of the schema as well.

00:25:49 Anna

Hmm.

00:25:50 Tim

When I see American presenters come and they think it's a workshop, [Anna: Mm-hmm] if it's the first time, it can be a little bit…

00:25:58 Anna

Uncomfortable.

00:25:59 Tim

Yeah, jarring even. It's like, “Oh, I want to do this, and nobody wants to do that.” And they're like, “What? Ohh, come on, you know, everybody…”

00:26:05 Tim

I'm like, no.

00:26:07 Anna

They just don't. That's not what we do. Another one project. [Tim: Mmm!]

00:26:12 Anna

A European project, [Tim: Mm-hmm] an EU project, EEA project, you know, the contextually, you and I think, “Oh, yeah, OK. They've been given some funding and they're going to they have some goals and aims that they need to accomplish. And they meet once a year, twice a year and they work on these things and update each other from all of all people from all over the place.”

00:26:32 Tim

Right.

00:26:32 Anna

But the concept of a project in in the United States is very different.

00:26:36 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:26:36 Anna

And you're not going to come and present a poster. [Tim: Yeah!] [both laughing hard]

00:26:43 Tim

[pause-no laughing] No.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:26:45 Tim

If your eyes have been opened, if you're now seeing a new perspective, share this episode and share the fun stories from me and colleagues around the world. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:27:00 Tim

Let's do a little word association where I say a word or a phrase, and then you come back with the first thing that comes to mind. A word, a phrase, whatever pops into your head. But try to think connected to the topics we've talked about today. So, try to connect it with ASL interpreting outside of the US.

00:27:21 Tim

OK, so first comfort food.

00:27:25 Anna

I'm going to go with coffee on this occasion. [both chuckling] Just because I think that those memories of coffee shops and… will always stick with me forever.

00:27:36 Tim

I agree definitely. Next character.

00:27:41 Anna

Character.

00:27:43 Anna

Role.

00:27:44 Tim

Role. Yeah, we create a different role space [Anna: Mm-hmm] than we normally would in the US.

00:27:51 Anna

And my, my role space in all the work I do now, because it's so varied, I can, you know, because of the demands on you and me and what the requests are, what jobs are out there, what we have to take. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:28:04 Anna

Assuming we're qualified and appropriate for all of it, the amounts of different contexts I find myself in and my understanding of my role is so shifting and so, so, so different than anything I experienced working in the United States. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:28:18 Tim

Yeah, next…

00:28:20 Tim

Culture.

00:28:21 Anna

Language.

00:28:23 Anna

Knowing and seeing how rich – We’re always taught to that culture and language, you know you grow up in the United States, it's a big thing. Culture is tied to language and language is tied to culture. But you to see it in our context here and to see it played out with so many languages.

00:28:36 Anna

And to be gifted the opportunity to be taught [Tim: Mm-hmm] about someone's culture through their language.

00:28:44 Anna

In so many different ways here. [Tim: Yes] It's a gift. You're welcomed into someone's culture when they share with you the ins and outs of their language.

00:28:53 Tim

Exactly.

00:28:55 Tim

If I can add just the word, fine, F-I-N-E, fine. In English, especially in the US, it can be used in so many ways. You can say, [agreeable] “Oh yeah, that's fine.” Or [resigned] “fine.” So many contextual meanings. [Anna: Mm-hmm, FINE!]

00:29:13 Tim

Whereas here, my wife who's Czech, she hates the word “fine”, because she has no idea what it means. And so for me, that's representative of what we deal with all the time. When someone uses a word, we have to think what is their meaning of this word? Why are they using this specific word? Are they doing it because they think it means this?

00:29:36 Tim

We know it really doesn't, but they think it means this. So that's how I need to go with it.

00:29:40 Anna

Right, back to what do they mean?

00:29:43 Anna

It's taking away all of these ingrained views of English and going back to, you know, interpreting 101. What is it they mean? And the meaning comes with intention. Audience, all of these things and just really deconstructing what we're doing in that moment to really… But to be able to get to what they mean?

00:30:03 Anna

You have to have so much background and context that comes from experience, and it comes from being in these cultures to be, to, to be able just immediately be able to understand what they actually mean.

00:30:17 Tim

Yeah.

00:30:18 Anna

And like you said, it can be as, as simple as one word like – fine. [Tim: Yeah]

00:30:24 Tim

Let's pause there and just wrap it up. What one thing would you say to ASL interpreters from the US?

00:30:33 Anna

I'd say welcome with the caveat that come with the understanding of the impact of what you are doing.

00:30:42 Anna

And that impact is far reaching, the impact of your carbon footprint when there's people whose carbon footprint could be significantly less.

00:30:51 Anna

The impact of what that has on the people living and working here, not just the interpreters but the Deaf people and the participants, come with knowledge, not with ignorance, about what's, what, the decision that you're making. I would not deny anybody the opportunity to live and work in this context. It's great.

00:31:11 Anna

It's vibrant. It's the best thing I probably have done despite all of the troubles and the heartache [Tim chuckling] and the problems and the complications. I love it. And, and I would want people to see that.

00:31:24 Tim

Yeah.

00:31:25 Anna

But try and do it with by making as few ripples as possible.

00:31:31 Anna

Take advice from people who are here about rates, about working conditions and involve us. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:31:40 Anna

Because they're not going to stop, there's no point in saying like, “Don't come! This is my place to work and…” It's not, it's not realistic. [Tim chuckling] And also, it's, I, I wouldn't, if I had experienced that it would have been devastating. [Tim: Yes.] But involve us.

00:31:55 Anna

Talk to us, if you can.

00:31:58 Anna

I know that's not always… might not know that we're here to talk to.

00:32:01 Anna

But…

00:32:02 Anna

Just try and see it from this side as well and also try and see the work. Really do think about whether, whether what you bring is going to be a disruptor, [Tim: Mm-hmm] based on all the things we talked about. You know when things being novel and being a tourist and, and language and culture and experience and context.

00:32:24 Anna

If you’re coming, take the whole medical approach of Do No Harm. [Tim: Mm-hmm] Yes, you might be able to do the job well enough that it works, but is your presence disruptive or can you mitigate that? Can you think about it? Can you work on that?

00:32:40 Anna

Also, just be aware that that's a possibility. Yeah, I think that's what I'd say.

00:32:44 Tim

Yeah, well, that's good. Anna, thank you very much. This was wonderful. It's, it's always nice to talk to someone else who understands the context that we're in. And I hope we've sparked a little insight into what it means to actually live and work abroad as an ASL interpreter. And maybe help someone think through their decisions to take a job abroad. Because it's not just simply “take yourself and what you know and put it somewhere else”.

00:33:20 Tim

Thank you very much.

00:33:21 Anna

Thanks so much, Tim.

00:33:22 Tim

We'll see you soon, hopefully.

00:33:24 Anna

See you very soon, I hope.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:33:30 Tim

Who knew there was so much involved in living a beautiful dream? Doing what you love? Yeah, there's some nitty gritty things about taxes, about privacy, retirement or not, that happen to be a part of it, and that's life. There's a sexiness to doing our work in a new place, but with it comes great responsibility, so please bear that in mind.

00:34:02 Tim

Listen to our episodes with an open heart and open mind with a smile and a laugh.

00:34:11 Tim

As sign language interpreters, we work in, well, risky, difficult situations more than we even know. We don't always know the backgrounds or the goals of the clients that we're working with, so one misunderstanding, or one misstep can be bothersome or risky.

00:34:33 Tim

Not just for the clients, ourselves, but for the next colleague in our profession that comes into this situation. What impact do you have? I think the words that are best said from Anna and everyone else thinking it right now.

00:34:53 Tim

Do No Harm. Sometimes we have to do the least amount of harm.

00:34:59 Tim

And with all of those negative vibes that we've just sent you…

00:35:05 Tim

Welcome. If you do happen to come near us, contact us. Involve us. It's our profession too, and we'd love to share it and maybe even share a coffee or two.

00:35:17 Tim

Until then, keep calm. Keep interpreting with your eyes open. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:36:01]