IW 167: Interview Genny Brusegan Conte Part 3: Start from Scratch-A Lonely Alien's Perspective

Typical?! Nothing's Typical.

Genny and I continue our conversation about the Italian Sign Language interpreting profession. We learn about the working conditions, the system of changing for the better, and Genny's approach to an interpreting assignment.

Let's learn a little about networking, supporting, and improving our profession.

Next week we conclude our interview with Genny, don't miss it.

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Transcript

IW 167: Interview Genny Brusegan Conte Part 3: Start from Scratch – A Lonely Alien’s Perspective

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:35 Tim

And now the quote of the day by Socrates.

00:00:40 Tim

“The secret to change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.”

00:00:49 Tim

Today, we continue the conversation with Genny, the Italian Sign language interpreter from the last few episodes.

00:00:55 Tim

But today we learn more of how things changed over the years, even with the barriers of the system that was in place, that is in place and how it works.

00:01:08 Tim

We also learn how it works to network, not just within your own country, but in countries around you and farther away. Let's talk about working conditions and a typical, or perhaps not typical working day or sign language interpreters in Italy.

00:01:28 Tim

So, let's get started talking with Genny.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:36 Tim

So, you started not knowing anything.

00:01:39 Genny

Yeah.

00:01:39 Tim

And then learning from your Deaf teachers, your Deaf clients and being mentored by the last generation, then realizing that in yourself too. I want to do the same and pass this on to the next.

00:01:54 Tim

How did or when did the influence of other interpreters in the European region or the world's influence your journey as an interpreter.

00:02:07 Genny

Huge influenced him because I became, I mean, I got my diploma in 2008. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:02:15 Genny

I became member of ANIOS in 2010 because at, at, in those years you had to wait at least a couple of, a couple of years before applying to become a member because they wanted you to have a little bit of experience before applying and having the test.

00:02:32 Genny

So, I became a member in 2010 and in 2013 they asked me to become the delegate for efsli because I wa-, I was one of the few who could speak English.

00:02:44 Tim

Ah.

00:02:44 Genny

And so, you know, I started even before to attend the efsli training. So, because I was curious to know how the profession was around Europe. So, I started going and I was always, always alone [Tim laughing] and said, “I want some colleagues to come with me.” But… uh

00:03:05 Genny

I mean, uh, they didn't have enough knowledge of English to be able to attend the conferences to attend trainings and so on. So that's why I consider myself lucky that I could study languages before this, I mean, course of studies and becoming an interpreter because it's there that I got the knowledge of English as I have it now.

00:03:28 Genny

So, it's not perfect, but I know that it's still, I mean, something that allows me to take part into trainings that were not, I mean would not be, I mean attended by anyone else. So, it was one of the first actually…

00:03:44 Genny

…attending those trainings and when I became a delegate for efsli, then again, it was mind blowing. [Tim chuckles] So, I mean, you got. I mean, I had, I was having some experience at regional level at those time. I was like Vice president of my region.

00:04:04 Tim

Hmm.

00:04:04 Genny

And while I was a delegate, I became a national member of my association. So, I got to know many, many information regarding how you say some fields, how you, how you…

00:04:24 Genny

I mean different types of researches, this different type of experience, it was really, really, really a wonderful experience and what I started to do when I was a delegate was whenever I was attending an efsli conference, [Tim: Mm-hmm] I was gathering all the information, taking notes, etcetera.

00:04:45 Genny

And then after a while I delivered the free workshop for the members in order to give at least some hints of what I got in order for them to give food for thought and say, “Well, in Europe they're talking about this, and this is really relevant at the moment. So, we need to also start to think about these issues.”

00:05:07 Genny

And that was going on till 2021 when I became a board member of efsli. So that's how I've been actually involved. But at the same time, I tried to give food for thoughts. In recent years, luckily, we have colleagues who have a knowledge of English.

00:05:27 Genny

And they can attend also the conferences. They can attend the trainings and I'm very happy because I'm not alone anymore, [both laughing] but also because what I was worried is that even though, I mean Italy…

00:05:43 Genny

…objectively, it has a complicated situation because if you look at it from outside eyes, you see well, they have seven associations, it's not - the service is not provided, it's not regular. So, there are many problems.

00:05:59 Genny

Nevertheless, I mean, some professionals are very, very high skilled. So, it was a pity not to show this. I mean equal preparation - also to the other colleagues around Europe.

00:06:16 Genny

And, and finally we got this opportunity. So, I'm, I'm very happy that nowadays there are some colleagues who can attend. As I started attending in those years and that also can have the possibility to share and network with other colleagues because I think it's really relevant.

00:06:36 Genny

Because sometimes when we were talking or I was bringing those issues [up] after efsli conferences or after some, some trainings to the other colleagues.

00:06:48 Genny

They were like looking at me as if I was an alien sometimes. [both laughing] And they said, “But here it's impossible to do that. But here it's impossible to do the other thing.” [Tim: Mm-hmm] And I said, “Yes, but we need to start from scratch from something. [both laughing] So we need to do something, otherwise we always stay here, and we just accept things without being actively involved.” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:07:13 Genny

Yeah, and, and that helped sometime, I mean because I saw the change, I'm going again back to the issue, issue, I mean it's not an “issue”, I mean the fact of the accepting Deaf interpreter, Deaf translators into the association, I first remember the, the first time we talked about it in efsli it was 2015.

00:07:37 Genny

And the first time I came back to my association, I said, “Well, you know, [both chuckling] you know, I need to say that, in efsli, they're talking about this, and we need to take into - it into account. So, we need to do something about that. [Tim: Mm-hmm] So, we need to think how to change the association in order to welcome the colleagues.”

00:07:59 Genny

And it was such a huge discussion because those time of course, you have, had very few Deaf interpreters, they were not qualified. You know, I think something which happened very similarly in other in other countries. But we came to that point. So, in 2021, when we had to accept people because the law changed.

00:08:22 Genny

Then you have to swap that part so people who were strict, now they are much more flexible because they know that it's an evolving profession and you can't always stick to the rules that you maybe set 20 years ago. It's OK. I mean some rules needs to be, needs to stay there because they protect ourselves.

00:08:44 Genny

But some others need to change and adapt to the times. So, me I've always been like giving you know to some pills [both chuckling] and say, “Well, we should talk about this. We should talk about that.” And try to push things to change also the mentoring program the CPD training, I mean we've been doing lots of things in those years and the goal was always to get closer to the higher standards at European level.

00:09:20 Genny

So, for me having had the opportunity to be part of efsli as a delegate first and then as a board member later has been of a hugely importance for the profession at state, uh, national level because it gave me the opportunity to see well what we thought was the right way actually, it is the right way. [both chuckle]

00:09:44 Genny

It's just a matter of try to find a way how to do it in this territory where we don't have any kind of protection. We don't have any kind of assurance or way to, I mean, working conditions are not really “OK.” Let’s say. [both chuckling] [Tim: yeah] Very varied, is very varied, I should say, but well, yes, I I think that it has been hugely important for me to have a network at international level.

00:10:21 Genny

And I mean from the association perspective, but also personal because I met lots of friends, I got to know with lots of colleagues. [Tim: hmm] And I know that nowadays, I know that if I need to get some information from that country or I can... [laughing] I, I know who I can contact, let's say. [Tim: yeah] And that's important because you know that you have always a network which is supportive to you and can help you. [Tim: yes] Also give you some other perspective, give you some other solutions, give you some other way of facing issues and that's really, really, really important.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:11:04 Tim

Some of the best moments in life is sharing time with friends and family, sharing what we love. Speaking of which, I know you love this podcast. Why not share it with a friend? After all your colleagues around the world are sharing their stories with you. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:11:21 Tim

You've given us a sense of you as an interpreter. What approach do you take, or philosophy do you have When you go into an interpreting situation?

00:11:34 Tim

And what has influenced that perspective?

00:11:40 Genny

OK, I should say that I've been always very hard on myself regarding my – outcomes, let’s say. The… how the service went or how or if I had to accept something or not because I was really very much aware every time I accepted something on being prepared to prepare, not prepared to do it or having the skills to, to accept something and so on.

00:12:11 Genny

But the very first thing that I've always tried to do is being respectful, because respectful towards the profession and towards the community. So that's why…

00:12:24 Genny

I've already tried to be really aware of what I'm doing in that moment because I didn't want to either being misperceived, [chuckles] [Tim: Mm-hmm] so I wanted it to be clear that I am a professional. I'm not a helper, so I wanted to respect clearly what the standards of the profession were and are.

00:12:49 Genny

But at the same time, being honest towards the community, so give them the best service ever they, they could get at the moment. So that's something that I've always tried to do. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:13:04 Genny

With some up and downs, of course, when I started, I was not as much skilled as everyone, so sometimes you made some errors in maybe having accepted some things which was not really…

00:13:21 Genny

I mean, you didn't have enough skills for those times, but there were no other options. Maybe, but. Well, really, I've always tried to be respectful to both sides because I wanted to be. I mean, as, uh,…

00:13:38 Genny

I don't know how to say that. [both laugh]

00:13:42 Genny

But well, to give the best, uh qualitative service, uh, possible in that moment. [Tim: Yeah] Yeah, I think this is my approach and still is my approach. So before having an assignment, I always try to be the “most ready” possible. I mean to, to find, to think about possible conditions or possible hiccups before, in advance, let's say. And then be prepared for whatever may happen in that, in that moment and at the same time check with the community if everything was OK and finding maybe better solutions for next time.

00:14:26 Tim

Yes, I agree with that. The respecting not only the clients that we're working for, communities that we're working for, but also the profession which respects the next interpreter that's coming into these situations.

00:14:38 Genny

Yeah, exactly. Because it happened several times and this goes back to what I said that there is a really very varied way of working in here and different standards.

00:14:51 Genny

It happened to me to come to some assignments where maybe you had a previous interpreter before you, And in some situations the previous interpreters gave good, I mean, best practices so that the clients knew what they were going to expect.

00:15:10 Genny

And another situation, it was completely disrupted. So, you had to again specify and say, “No, sorry, but you should do this, this and this and this.” So, you may sound strict lot stricter sometimes. But I think it's necessary to set good practices.

00:15:31 Genny

Also, for the next comers as you said. [Tim: yeah] So I know that when I come to a place, I'm not representing just Genny, but I'm representing the category because maybe for that client it's the first time to work with an interpreter. So, if I'm setting good standards, then the next one also will have good standards.

00:15:50 Genny

And they will also know already how they should work with an interpreter, so I've been always really aware about that, and I hope that I would like that other people would be more aware about this as well. [Tim: Yeah]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:16:07 Tim

Yes, supporting one another in our profession is what keeps us developing and creating new opportunities for us all. Speaking of support, click on the links in the show notes and support the podcast. Buy Me A Coffee and support the passion of our profession.

00:16:24 Tim

Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:16:27 Tim

In the US, we have agencies, and they give us the information we go there, we know who the clients are hearing in depth and what the situation, blah blah blah. Here it's sometimes like that. Other times the interpreter will meet the Deaf client first and travel to some place or after the, the interpreting is over, they may talk more. OK? Does this mean this, this, this? And there's more communication.

00:16:54 Tim

So, is there something in particular about interpreting in Italy that might be surprising or that would not be a typical situation in other countries.

00:17:07 Genny

There's nothing typical. Can I say there's nothing typical. [both laughing]

00:17:12 Genny

So again, there are, there can be many possible situations. So, as you said, you may have…

00:17:23 Genny

I mean the Deaf client, if he is the Deaf client calling you directly, maybe it's because you know him or her already. So, you know I mean what the, his personal story or her personal story. So maybe you have just you meet there at the appointment or where you are supposed to go. You have a brief exchange about what the issue will be.

00:17:45 Genny

Or maybe you have a video chat before and you had some info about the, the, the, the service.

00:17:52 Genny

But this is something related much more to community interpreting most of the time. If it is related to…

00:18:00 Genny

I'm thinking about remote those who are working remotely for agencies. Of course it's immediate. I mean, it's surprise. [both laughing] Surprise. So, you just have the call and then you discover what the call is about. So very improvising, I would say. You can't prepare so much for those kind of service.

00:18:22 Genny

Then you have the legal field which is even something different.

00:18:28 Genny

Uh, nowadays, uh, initially we have some kind of… it's not a law but well, some kind of internal decree or something.

00:18:45 Genny

That, uh, I mean states that you should have an interpreter if you are part of a minority. The point that, is that the pay at the moment is really nothing.

00:18:57 Genny

So, it's compared to, I don't know. I don't remember if it is €8 per hour, just to let you know. And it, it goes back to the 70s. So, it's a, it's a law which has never been updated. And in that case, it's not even asked at the moment if you have any kind of uh, qualification.

0:19:22 Genny

And, uh, you cannot talk to the parties before, so you don't have any kind of information before you get there. And if you get there, it depends on the people who are there, the judge or the lawyer, etcetera, etcetera.

00:19:36 Genny

If you ask for, please give me some information at least because otherwise I can't interpret whatever is going to happen.

00:19:45 Genny

They sometimes can give you some information, but it's not compulsory. Let's say. [Tim: Mm-hmm] Not all the courts works like that, and in any case, it's not said you can talk to the Deaf person before to have at least you know also the type of signing he has, if he is a, a foreigner, if he is Italian, we don't know. [Tim: yeah] So, that situation is really tricky.

00:20:11 Genny

And it really varies depending on the court you are going to give the service.

00:20:19 Genny

We have been again struggling with the Ministry of Justice to have this law changed and somehow have also a better fee recognition and so on and also the fact that you need to have qualified interpreters to get into court, but it's again in, in the process and bureaucracy is really complicated here. And of course they have more urgent issues to talk about, you know. [both chuckle]

00:20:53 Genny

So, let's say that they, also the Deaf community is aware, and the Deaf Association is aware about this hiccup in the especially in the legal settings because they know there is, there is a need, but there is not a service which is matching this need. [Tim: Yeah]

00:21:13 Genny

Um, so, I hope that it will be settled.

00:21:18 Genny

In the next years after this law recognition that may somehow influence also this aspect, but it's really very, very varied we don't have like a prototype of the preparation setting.

00:21:41 Genny

I mean the only, maybe, that the only setting which you kind of are most of the time prepared is the conference setting or seminars where you know that you have presenters you can ask for their presentation before you can get prepared, you can work with your colleagues, so that's the safer, let's say place.

00:21:59 Genny

But in other, umm, I mean daily situations. I think that it's really a matter of getting from your experience what can be useful to face the situation. So, we should really be very flexible sometimes, very flexible to find the best solution for both parties.

00:22:25 Tim

Yeah, there's always something. Always something that's in the process, constantly working through bureaucracy. I think that's everywhere.

00:22:33 Genny

Sometimes you have also embarrassing situations in which think about…

00:22:40 Genny

I don't know if it can be useful, but well in when you are with notary that you have some legal documents, you have to be signed, etcetera. You need to first be appointed by the legal person and then you get there. But it's not said that you can sign or interpret or have the person sign and you interpreting to the vocal language.

00:23:07 Genny

Because it not to me, but it happened to a colleague of mine some years ago. They forced the person to read it aloud and it was really embarrassing because…

00:23:17 Genny

You know, it's kind of force a person doing something he's not confident with, while I mean the, the interpreter was there for that reason, to have him or her sign and then interpreting to Italian.

00:23:35 Genny

Because, again, sometimes the public administration or some legal people or working in those fields, they just follow the law.

00:23:47 Genny

And they do not realize that in that way they are somehow humiliating the, the person or making them feeling in a weird situation.

00:24:01 Genny

And, and in those situations, you try to make them understand, so you try to mediate. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. So, it really depends. I mean, maybe this is just a one single episode, but…

00:24:21 Genny

We have still sometimes instances, not, not as they were in the past, and they said the mean situation improved a lot also for the Community.

00:24:31 Genny

But still I mean also the public, I mean hearing people are not aware of how important it is to have an interpreter in certain situations because they took it for granted that Deaf people know Italian. So maybe subtitles is enough or writing is enough, etc etc.

00:24:52 Tim

Yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:24:59 Tim

So, let's look at some of the finer points of what Genny discussed today. Her knowledge of other interpreters throughout the world, especially in Europe, truly influenced her own perspectives and influenced how she looked at her old-world view in Italy, how the profession could change or should change locally.

00:25:23 Tim

For me, it's a good point for all of us when we step out of our comfort zone, when we look past our own lenses, we can learn more about where we are from what is out there. It makes us realize other possibilities, but it also makes us realize how hard it is to change the ideas of where we are.

00:25:54 Tim

It's hard to convince someone who doesn't see what we've seen. It doesn't always mean that we are correct or that they are correct. It means it's a starting point.

00:26:02 Tim

It's a place to begin the conversation and discuss how things could be. Her approach to interpreting connects to that. Respect for others involved, the stakeholders that are involved in the interpreting situation, including those who are not there, the next clients, the next interpreters.

00:26:33 Tim

Respecting everyone's view, helps us start to analyze that view and whether or not it applies to us or our situation. But having the respect enough to listen is needed.

00:26:43 Tim

But in the long run, I think the best thing we can take from today's discussion is that we are not alone. We not only have our local network.

00:26:52 Tim

But we have our extended network full of interpreters of many shapes and sizes and ideas that we can lean on and ask for support and share our support. So, until next time, keep calm, keep starting a new interpretation.

00:27:19 Tim

I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:27:51]