IW 166: Interview Genny Brusegan Conte Part 2: Why Beginner Interpreters Feel Weird

Wait! This is what I thought it was going to be!

Genny from Italy takes us on a wonderful journey down memory lane to the beginnings of the Italian Sign Language Interpreting profession and her own interpreting journey. We see the development of the education of interpreters, the shaping of the profession by the laws and by the Deaf and interpreting communities.

Next week we will continue the conversation.

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Transcript

IW 166: Interview Genny Brusegan Conte Part 2: Why Beginner Interpreters Feel Weird

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:35 Tim

And now, the quote of the day by author T.S. Eliot.

00:00:42 Tim

“What we call the beginning is often the end, and to make an end is to make a beginning. The end is where we start from.”

00:00:52 Tim

This quote is true throughout our lives. At each stage of our life, we end, for example, the summer holidays and begin the school year.

00:01:03 Tim

We end being single and start our life married. We end a sentence and begin another sentence and it's true of our profession as well. Today we continue the conversation with Genny Brusegan Conte from Italy. We learn more of the education of sign language interpreters in Italy, how they certify quality assurance. Some of the laws that have influenced and shaped the interpreting profession and most importantly for us, we learn the story of Genny and her journey into the profession of sign language interpreting. Each of these steps was a beginning and an end.

00:01:48 Tim

Well, I think it's appropriate for me to say let's end this introduction and begin the episode. Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:02:01 Tim

You've talked about there's a variety of ways of education. [Genny: Yes] Is there some sort of ongoing education that is regular or what do you see throughout Italy?

00:02:16 Genny

OK. Again, a law before the 2021 was a law that we had in 2013, the one that I mentioned about regular rising annually unregulated professions. So those were, I mean…

00:02:33 Genny

Decided to organize themselves into an association but were not officially regulated at national level. Let's say. In that law it was required to stick to some points and one of them was the CPD training. [Tim: hmm] So, from that year on I can talk again about ANIOS...

00:02:53 Genny

We started to set up a program, an internal program of CPD training for our members. So, we set up some kind of, uh, credits that you have to gather in one year to be able to certify that you are, I mean, that your quality is still at that level. And so, we went on, I mean we started with an experimental phase etcetera, etcetera and nowadays it's, uh, set. So now it's regular.

00:03:26 Genny

So, we ask members to take part into trainings, the organization, the associations, organized, organizes trainings in order to give, I mean, members the possibility to gather these credits. The majority of the trainings is organized inside the associations by maybe other members who have or trainers who have experience in certain fields depending on also, the needs of the moment.

00:04:02 Genny

So, if we I mean, I remember that during the COVID we did several webinars concerning how to work in the healthcare system in those conditions for example, or how to take care about our mental health or about stress levels in that conditions. [Tim: Mm-hmm] But then of course it depends on the needs of the market of the moment.

00:04:21 Genny

So, we try to regularly organize trainings in order to give the opportunity to members to gather them to collect these credits.

00:04:29 Genny

But there are also maybe other associate, the other associations as well are organizing the same some other opportunity training opportunity. [Tim: Mm-hmm] So, every member is free to take part also to other trainings if related to the interpreting profession, of course.

00:04:52 Genny

So, it's really something we, we want to be, have evidence for because…

00:05:01 Genny

Since that 2013 law, it may happen that, for example, a client asks you for a quote, ask you if you are part of an association, but ask you also if you have a certificate - quality certificate, we call it. [Tim: Mm-hmm] That means if you comply with that uh, quality standard, let’s say.

00:05:24 Genny

And we now inside the associations that you can ask for this certificate every year [Tim: Mm-hmm] if you comply with the CPD requests. [Tim: yeah]

00:05:35 Genny

So, this is kind of linked. It, it may happen now and then it depends who the client is. If it is a public administration, they can ask for it sometimes.

00:05:47 Tim

And so, you get so many hours like a certificate of attendance for that workshop, and that goes in your portfolio or your file.

00:05:53 Genny

Yeah, let's say that every year…

00:05:57 Genny

I mean, in my association we are compliant. We need to fill a form in which you state I took part. It's a self-statement, let's say. But then there is again a Commission inside the association who's going to randomly check if what you are saying is correct or not.

00:06:18 Genny

So, they want if in case they pick up yours and they say, oh, well, you said you went to this, this and this, where are the certificates of attendance of those courses? So, show them to me. [Tim: Mm-hmm] So, in order to really see if you attended or if you were like just writing down some credits. [chuckling]

00:06:37 Genny

Yeah. So, there is kind of internal control about quality level. [Tim: Yeah, OK]

00:06:41 Genny

I don't know how it works in other associations though, so I know that they have similar systems, but I don't know how strict they can be or not. So just to let you know that there may, may be some variation internal variations depending on the associations you are a member of.

00:07:02 Tim

Yeah.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:07:03 Tim

Some of the best moments in life is sharing time with friends and family, sharing what we love. Speaking of which, I know you love this podcast. Why not share it with a friend? After all your colleagues around the world are sharing their stories with you. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:07:20 Tim

Because Italy is varied, with larger cities rural areas, are sign language interpreters using Italian and LIS?

00:07:32 Genny

Yes, the, the typical combination, language combination is Italian and LIS (Italian sign language). [Tim: OK] You may have a bunch of colleagues who have other language combinations, so mainly English towards LIS, [Tim: Mm-hmm] or, a few may have also Spanish or maybe other [Tim: Mm-hmm] languages depending on your, I mean, education background.

00:07:59 Genny

But let's say that there is not an official, umm, training for other types of language combination, unless you do you take some specific courses. For example, me at the moment I'm attending this postgraduate course, so it's again English towards either LIS or IS in case, but otherwise it really is a top skill that one, that a colleague can have.

00:08:31 Genny

But the association is not, I mean, at least again, I'm talking about ANIOS. It's not taking the responsibility of certifying any other kind of language combination unless you don't have a certificate. Since there is not, I mean, an official way to test it. [Tim: Yeah, yeah]

00:08:49 Genny

Because the, the official test is the typical Italian list combination the entry test. But yes, we have some not very many because also the demand is quite small but again, the one which is much common is English and least maybe because nowadays we have more international events and, and so yeah, that can be one of the most common combination.

00:09:23 Tim

And so, LIS is, is pretty standardized?

00:09:28 Genny

Nowadays it's pretty standardized. It wasn't when I started. [both chuckling] When I started, it wasn't at all, and it is funny because at those times you didn't have also so many videos on the net, you didn't have so many materials to get the different variations inside the territory. So, when it happened that we had to go to a conference and we knew that there was a Deaf person…

00:10:00 Genny

...or Deaf representative coming from another region, we were all like, “Oh my God! What’s gonna, what is he or she going to sign?” [both laughing] Because we were not sure to be able to understand, [Tim: yeah] the varieties. And it was really crazy sometimes. So, we like called colleagues and ask those maybe working with that person in particular.

00:10:23 Genny

And so, I remember that that period and if I think about that nowadays, it's completely different of course, because of course media would standardize language much more than it was before, and of course experience helps a lot. But yeah, I think that you still have some signs in some maybe fields. I think about colors or months.

00:10:54 Genny

Or maybe some something which is still a little bit different from region to region, but it it's becoming more and more standardized, much more than as it were at my beginning. So, when I started. [both still chuckling]

00:11:12 Tim

OK, now I have to ask. Does LIS have separate signs for every type of pasta that there is?

00:11:21 Genny

[Laughing] You use classifiers. [Tim: OK] Classifiers are great. I mean, we have general sign for pasta, but then I mean of course, if it is spaghetti, if it is macaroni, if it is for farfalle, then you have, I mean you have several, I mean you…

00:11:38 Genny

There's usually classifier, shape-classifiers [Tim: uh-huh] are those that we use most of course to describe [laughs] [Tim chuckles: OK] what kinds of pasta are you talking about.

00:11:47 Tim

Well, I, I, wanted to get to the important things.

00:11:53 Tim

So yeah, OK, OK. [both laughing]

00:11:54 Genny

Yeah, that, that was really relevant.

00:11:56 Tim

Yes. Ah, OK. So that takes us back to what you've already been talking about, when you first started sign language interpreting.

00:12:08 Tim

Why did you become a sign language interpreter?

00:12:11 Genny

Yeah, that's an interesting question as well.

00:12:15 Genny

I'm still asking myself sometimes. [both laughing]

00:12:18 Genny

But, umm, OK, I should say that if I think about my positionality. I am a hearing interpreter, I have no, I had no contact with the Deaf community. So, I have not been raised into a family with maybe relatives, Deaf relatives and so on.

00:12:37 Genny

But in all my educational paths, I've always been dealing with languages. So, I learned when I was at high school and also to middle school as well. I started learning several languages. So, then I finished high school and I was completely you know, pissed off about it… [both laughing]… studies? I was completely…

00:13:01 Genny

OK, I'll go and travel a little bit. I mean, I'll go working and then I'll travel a little bit around. So, to understand what will be my, I mean, life.

00:13:14 Genny

And then, uh, I mean, I had to come home. Of course, after a while.

00:13:19 Tim

Where is home then?

00:13:20 Genny

Home, home, where I was born is in the Veneto region so close to Venice in the Venice province.

00:13:27 Tim

Nice.

00:13:29 Genny

Yes, I've been studying in Venice. It's a beautiful city and very, very nice to, to live as a student, to live as a student. I should specify that.

00:13:40 Genny

So, when I came back home for family reasons I said, well, I need to do something at university, but I don't know. So, I want to study - to go further studying languages, but I don't really like literature and so on. So, and then I found that at Venice University they started- They started off…

00:14:00 Genny

It was like the second or the first or the second year they started this course related to linguistics and Deaf studies.

00:14:10 Genny

And I said, well, I don't know. I don't know nothing. I don't know anything regarding linguistics. I don't know what it is and sign language, I said, “Hmm, it seems interesting, but I don't know what it is, again.” And I started. So, I fell completely in love with linguistics and also with sign language. [laughing] So, it was like grabbing me completely. I did my BA and at, when I finished my BA, they started with an experimental course for interpreting [Tim: Hmm] at the university.

00:14:49 Genny

So, it was like the very, very, very first course they organized at university level all over Italy. [Tim: Hmm] And it was a good experiment. [both laughing]

00:15:04 Genny

And, and then I continue with my MA also in linguistics. So, my full education concerning sign language and linguistics was there at, at Venice University, and I'm really grateful to that because then it really opened my mind, so much because I completely discovered a new world, new profession, a new way of thinking.

00:15:28 Genny

And then I started being involved step by step into the community and started working. So, it was really something, you know, I was not part of the community. I didn't get in touch with the community first and then I studied it was from outside as a student. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And I, I think I was one of the first starting the course of studies like this.

00:15:50 Genny

Because the majority at this time was coming from courses from the National Deaf Association or from private institutions, which were in any case organized by Deaf people. So, me I was completely, I mean unaware of that. Of course. I just saw the course and I said interesting, let's see, how it goes. [both chuckle]

00:16:10 Genny

Let's see how it goes.

00:16:12 Genny

Uh, but actually I liked the approach, and it has been always really useful for my entire career for many different aspects.

00:16:24 Genny

And that's why, I mean, how I became a sign language interpreter, let's say.

00:16:32 Tim

Wow. And that was what year again?

00:16:36 Genny

I started in 2003.

00:16:39 Tim

03 yeah.

00:16:40 Genny

And I finished the whole thing with my MA in 2009, but I already had the qualification as interpreter in 2007, so it was in between the BA and MA, and I started. So, I mean officially started working as a sign language interpreter in 2008.

00:17:03 Tim

Yeah. [Genny: yeah]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

Supporting one another in our profession is what keeps us developing and creating new opportunities for us all. Speaking of support, click on the links in the show notes and support the podcast. Buy Me A Coffee and support the passion of our profession. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:17:24 Tim

So how did you start working as an interpreter? What did it feel like since you hadn't been in the community? Hardly. How did that transition from student linguistics to actually inside the community and working? How did that feel?

00:17:40 Genny

It was really weird because, uh, something that I really found difficult to accept was that I had an image of the Deaf community coming from my Deaf teacher, of course.

00:18:00 Genny

So, I thought that every Deaf people would be highly educated at a certain type of way of communicating and so on. And when I started actually getting involved into the community, I understood there was really such a variety also in the communication style in the educational level in I mean...

00:18:20 Genny

Different ways of and different levels also of understanding each other. But I was lucky again because I started working in the educational field and in those years, there was a bilingual project which started because…

00:18:39 Genny

I, uh, I need to do a step back. As the interpreter interpreting service is not provided by the government normally.

00:18:47 Genny

When you have to deal with the children at school, you do not have an interpreter. You usually have an assistant communicator [Tim: Mm-hmm] for some hours during the week. And this assistant communicator, which is provided by law, is not required always to have knowledge or competence in sign language, OK?

00:19:14 Genny

So, this is the normal standard in Italy at the moment. [Tim: Mm-hmm] Nevertheless, there are some instances, some projects, small project here and there in Italy which have I mean…

00:19:22 Genny

Again, a lot of experience in the years in which they provide interpreting service for the kids from kindergarten till high school and I had the opportunity to work inside these two instances. So, my experience started as educational interpreter. So, working at school but as an interpreter.

00:19:43 Genny

We use the assistant teacher and all and again, it was really weird to work with the kids. [both laugh]

00:19:50 Genny

So, it was really. But I learned really a lot. I mean, it was kind of a gym for me because I was obliged to sign every day or some hours. I had to learn from the other colleagues, because we had maybe opportunities to meet together to compare, to share ideas, to modify and so on. And it and this has been really, really helpful for me. And from that I could get better involved into the community as well. So, it was like a gradual…

00:20:27 Genny

I mean.

00:20:29 Genny

“Welcoming” [both chuckle] in the, in the community and understanding all the variety or inside the community itself, but I really appreciate that because it's really, it's, it has been really fundamental for me, otherwise it would have been really hard to get all the different…

00:20:52 Genny

I mean experience with so few working opportunities as I said before.

00:20:57 Tim

Yeah. Yeah. So, you didn't work a lot say, in the community like a doctor's visits or that sort of thing.

00:21:05 Genny

I did some but not that much. I should admit I was mainly working either at school or in those years I was working in seminars or conferences because we were the first one trained at such level to work in such context.

00:21:24 Genny

In this area, let's say because there were again few interpreters trained, etcetera, etcetera, nowadays of course it's totally different. But in those years, we started like that. So, the few interpreters who were, I mean like known and who were part of the community before me, who have been my teachers and it was done inserting us or I mean mentoring us, entering the, the field, entering the, the, the Community, because otherwise there was no chance to...

00:22:01 Genny

…to get involved into the community itself, because of course for them as well. It was something weird to have. I mean, interpreters popping up [Tim chuckling] who were not CODAs, who were not, I mean, part of the community for other reasons.

00:22:21 Genny

But I think that I really have to thank my previous teachers nowadays colleagues of course, [Tim: Mm-hmm] for the, the fact that they could, I mean, support us in in those years support us in giving us sharing the best practices, giving us ethical guidance, giving us suggestions.

00:22:53 Genny

I mean, whatever kind of need we had, we could ask. So that was really, really, really useful, at least for me. But also, I know for the colleagues of mine we were on, on that on that group. [Tim: Yeah]

00:23:13 Genny

And that’s why I think, also in my professional, but not only professional career, but also advocacy career. I would say since I've been in many boards in the years it was one of the goals to, to be supportive to the newcomers, to to, to the new uh interpreters getting into the profession to give them the, umm, not only the knowledge regarding the techniques, the interpreting techniques, but all the rest which is…

00:23:43 Genny

…usually you don't. You usually don't have enough time to talk about during training course, so you have some part dedicated to ethics, but not that much, which should be necessary to discuss how to deal with the client, how to understand if there are some conflicts of interest, how to avoid some situations and so forth.

00:24:09 Genny

So, this is also something that I mean as an association, we tried, we've tried to do in in the years to try to accompany and mentor the new members and that, and that I think came from the experience I had. So, the fact that I wanted also this to be passed to the others.

00:24:30 Tim

Yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:24:36 Tim

I absolutely love talking to interpreters from other countries. We learn so much about how the profession is similar in other countries, how it's different, how people are people, how interpreters are interpreters. It helps reinforce what we know, what we feel, what we've done.

00:24:55 Tim

And, and it also helps us analyze our own ways, our own traditions, the way things have always been. Are we doing it the best way? Genny talks about the different ways that interpreting was looked at in the beginning, just like most of us.

00:25:15 Tim

The first interpreters were the CODAs, or those close to the communities, and then we move to more academic to analyzing what we were really doing, analyzing the linguistics properties, the processes, the ethical and hard decisions that we make every day.

00:25:35 Tim

Becoming a profession, looking at the quality of our work and our decisions, mentoring one another from one generation to another, from horizontal generations helps to improve the profession. I think it's very important for us to remember and realize that as we become more experienced.

00:25:56 Tim

We need to remember what it was like when we were not and look through those old lenses that we used to have about the world view that we thought things were like.

00:26:08 Tim

The Deaf community was this. The clients were this. The hearing people were this. Our languages were this. Our process was this. Our ethical behaviors were this. Are they the same as they were when we started? Have they changed because we had good mentors or good experiences?

00:26:28 Tim

And by good, I mean real experiences that we've gone through. We've made mistakes, and we've learned from them. Every time we make mistakes, and we find that we are making certain mistakes. We want to end those and begin…

00:26:46 Tim

That's right. ..begin new ones. OK, not new mistakes, but begin anew in a new way. Change how we did it in the past to become more accurate. And it doesn't mean perfect. It doesn't mean quote, correct UN quote.

00:27:06 Tim

No, it means we're striving to do better, to do what's right. If we have that goal in mind, we can't be distracted. We constantly strive to improve. So, until next episode when we hear more from Genny…

00:27:22 Tim

Keep calm. Keep ending and beginning your interpreting. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:28:04]