IW 158: Interview Julie Kléne Part 2: 4-Hour Workday - Typical

I'm right here! Don't you see me?! Yep, interpreting is a profession.

Julie Kléne a sign language interpreter from France continues her story and what it's like to work as an LSF interpreter in France.

• Is our profession unknown as a career?
• Can we work for only 4 hours a day?
• How did you decide to be a sign language interpreter?

Enjoy this and see you next week.

The Interpreter's Workshop with Tim Curry is three years old in June of 2025!

In the summer 2025, July and August, the Interpreter's Workshop with Tim Curry will take a break.

The episodes will resume in September.

Catch up on the episodes you've not listened to yet!

Check me out on Instagram @interpretersworkshop.

Transcript

IW 158: Interview Julie Kléne Part 2: 4-Hour Workday - Typical

Support the Podcast!

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by artist John Lennon.

00:00:39 Tim

“Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.”

00:00:44 Tim

I've used this quote, well, a lot in my life. We tend to think I've gotta follow the plan. I've got appointments, I've got meetings. What's on the schedule today? I have this To Do List, and then your child gets sick, or you get sick, or traffic is just too much and you can't make it to that meeting.

00:01:04 Tim

Well, now you have to change some things.

00:01:06 Tim

Yes, life is what happens, and as a sign language interpreter, it happens to us a lot. We don't usually have that typical day, or rather our typical day is, well life and it happens a lot.

00:01:24 Tim

Today we continue the interview with Julie Kléne.

00:01:25 Tim

And she talks about her travels becoming a sign language interpreter, what she learned, and how it's difficult sometimes for people to see the profession and understand that it is a profession. And that they can actually pursue a career in sign language interpreting. What do we do about that? How do we increase the number of sign language interpreters when it's invisible? It's not a typical profession.

00:01:52 Tim

Let's walk with her on this journey on this episode with Julie from France. Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:02:03 Tim

Your first travels abroad, I guess was to the US to live for a year or so. But since that time, you came back, you started working as a sign language interpreter and then correct me if I'm wrong, it looks as though you had a pause or a break in your interpreting profession and you did something else.

00:02:21 Tim

Is that correct?

00:02:23 Julie

I took a break for a few years because I went traveling and I also stayed in Latin America for a few years.

00:02:33 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:02:34 Julie

But during that that break I came back a few times in France to help out. For example, when friends and colleagues were going on maternity leaves, for example, [Tim: Mm-hmm] I came back to replace them at work. But I always went back to Latin America or Mexico, where I lived for a few years, and I came back to France six years ago. 

00:03:04 Julie

So yeah, I did plenty of other things. I worked in a hostel; I worked in a bar. I worked as a French teacher. I'm not a teacher. [Tim chuckles] That doesn't work, but I always my, my… The job I love is sign language interpreting, so that's what I, I still do.

00:03:27 Julie

And I kept doing even though I was living abroad. Yeah.

00:03:33 Tim

May I ask why you took that semi break?

00:03:36 Julie

Umm… I umm, it… The first time it was because of the regular I don't feel like I fit here anymore, and I want to go.

00:03:49 Julie

It was more of a personal, personal reasons, [Tim: Mm-hmm] although I had a very good job. I was very happy with that. But I, I felt like I really wanted to do something else. And one of my very good friends had gone on a one year travel around the world.

00:04:06 Julie

I had met her in New Zealand, and I was like, “Hmm, maybe I really want to do that.” So I went for a year, but it was maybe 1 1/2 months into that one-year world trip of mine that I called my colleagues and told them.

00:04:25 Julie

“When I come back at the end of the year, I'm just going to quit and keep traveling for more [Tim: hmm] for a longer period of time.”

00:04:32 Julie

And that longer period of time ended up being nine years.

00:04:36 Julie

But out of, in those nine years, I still came back two… one and a half years in France to work as a sign language interpreter anyway. Yeah, never, never completely left that.

00:04:52 Tim

Umm, so it wasn't necessarily that you were burned out from the profession, or was it that part of?

00:04:59 Julie

No, not at all. Not at all. It was never about the never about the job. It was really like personal reasons and more… [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:05:11 Julie

The other part of me that really since I was a kid that really wanted to travel, and see, see different countries, and meet different people and I needed to do it. And at that moment, yeah.

00:05:25 Tim

Do you think that had any influence on keeping you energized for the profession or like giving you that extra balance in your life that you didn't need to worry about having burnout?

00:05:38 Julie

I don't know. I don't think. I don't think I would have had to burn out... I’d have burned out anyway. I, I really enjoy the job. Even though some parts are really…uh…

00:05:54 Julie

Some parts can be… I don't want to say boring because it's not boring, but it's, it's bothersome sometimes to keep repeating the same things, especially to maybe hearing people about how, how some language interpreting works, how Deaf people can obviously do anything they want, and anything they can, and I'm not and we, we have sign language interpreters are just here to help both parties to communicate.

00:06:24 Julie

But apart from that, you know the job has always interested me and I really think traveling just helped me with, you know, understanding people and [Tim: hmm] seeing things differently.

00:06:44 Julie

Nothing. I had nothing against the job. [chuckles]

00:06:48 Tim

No, you're right. We do have those repetitive times where it's…

00:06:52 Tim

“Ah…OK.” Where we don't even have to think. It just kind of comes out of our minds quickly all the answers we have to give or the types of people we have to deal with sometimes as well. That's, that's the repetition I would say. [Julie: yeah] Speaking of repeating myself.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:07:07 Tim

Speaking of repeating myself... Seriously, if you love listening to other interpreters from around the world, why not support me to bring it to you? Just Buy Me A Coffee, click on the links in the show notes to help keep the podcast going. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:07:23 Tim

So, in your travels and in your work as a sign language interpreter, what is your impression of meeting and working with interpreters from around the world or from different countries?

00:07:36 Julie

I’m really in that. [chuckles] I really enjoy efsli meetings, for example, or the WFD and WASLI Congresses that we had in, we held in Paris in 2019.

00:07:54 Julie

And, and funnily enough, 2 days ago I was once more training with Maya de Witt [Tim: Mm-hmm] sign language interpreting with English as a third language. And we met with fellow colleagues from Iceland, from Austria, from Germany.

00:08:19 Julie

So, it's always so very interesting to see how it works in other countries and and what are their, you know, each other's challenges.

00:08:30 Julie

Even though lots of those challenges are quite the same, but, umm…

00:08:35 Julie

The, the, the way…

00:08:38 Julie

The way we work or the way we are employed or self-employed and those kind of things are so very different. It's, it's very interesting [Tim: Mm-hmm] to share that information. Yeah, I really like that.

00:08:51 Tim

I agree, definitely. So, you went to Montana. You stayed as an exchange student. And when you came back, you're trying to find your way, your career. How did your family and friends feel when you decided to go on this crazy journey as a sign language interpreter?

00:09:10 Julie

Well, I don't remember them saying anything in particular.

00:09:18 Julie

Maybe they were already used to me doing original things [Tim chuckles] since I come back from that foreign exchange year abroad.

00:09:29 Julie

But no, I don't remember them saying anything special.

00:09:35 Julie

Maybe…

00:09:36 Julie

“Ohh yeah, that's OK you're you'll be an interpreter. Ohh, that's right. I mean, you already speak French, English and Spanish. OK, that's kind of a natural job that you could fall into being an interpreter and now with sign language. OK, what is sign language and what did you choose that?” But really, really nothing… Nothing out of the ordinary, I would say.

00:10:02 Tim

Yeah, that's nice to be able to kind of transition into what you feel is the right path.

00:10:07 Julie

Yeah, but it's true that the job is not well-known, and it still isn't today. We think that it's also one of the reasons we have so…uh…

00:10:24 Julie

…not enough language interpreters or not enough applicants to learn how to be language interpreters at the university because the job is not known.

00:10:37 Julie

And even myself, when I realized that I'm going to use some language interpreting because things happened in my life that way, but I didn't even realize that I could have been a French, English, Spanish vocal interpreter.

00:10:56 Julie

Now, today, you and I, we know there are like vocal interpreters in English and Russian.

00:11:02 Julie

Obviously, they've always been there also.

00:11:05 Julie

But it's not something that you knew about when you're at school in high school looking for a profession. Everybody talks about other professions, like teaching, you know, scientists and everything. And I knew that I really liked languages and foreign languages, and people were talking to me about being a teacher of those languages, but nobody ever told me I could be an interpreter.

00:11:33 Julie

And maybe I would have gone to the university earlier, with that in mind, had I known, but it's, it's also a good thing that I didn't know because I went to the States. I learned American Sign Language, came back and learned French Sign language. So, it's very cool. But yeah, I think interpreting in general is not something that students today are aware of as a possibility of a future job? Yeah. [Tim: yeah]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:12:12 Tim

You now have five universities – degrees for sign language interpreting. [Julie: Mm-hmm] How would you describe the ongoing education for sign language interpreters after they've started working and so forth?

00:12:25 Julie

I think we usually say that there isn't enough ongoing training after we've graduated, [Tim: Mm-hmm] maybe because we are anxious and curious, and we always want to learn more. But in spite of the fact that there are trainings.

00:12:45 Julie

We have trainings in legal, legal settings. We have trainings in medical settings and maybe they are like once in a while, not very regular. Like if you miss one training and you have to wait for the next one, you don't really know when the next one is going to happen.

00:13:09 Julie

But this year I realized maybe because I was more curious, also because I wanted to learn other things as well, and I realized there were many propositions now in- inside the universities themselves or even outside of them, associations or other people doing other things related to, to sign language interpreting. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:13:41 Tim

Let's talk about you specifically. You, you speak English, French and Spanish, and then LSF. Which of those languages do you most commonly work in?

00:13:57 Julie

French, first. French and French Sign Language.

00:14:01 Julie

Then it's English and French Sign Language.

00:14:05 Julie

Very occasionally I also worked between Spanish and French Sign language.

00:14:13 Julie

And very recently I took a training in International Signs.

00:14:19 Julie

But I don't work in International Signs at all, because I only have the basics. [Tim: Mm-hmm] So yeah, I can work between my three local languages and French Sign Language, but French Sign Language is the only sign language I know right now.

00:14:35 Tim

Yeah. Do you ever work between the spoken languages?

00:14:39 Julie

Well, yeah, it's happened only once in a very particular setting, and it was only, I was only translating into English into the ear of another sign language interpreter who was herself translating into an indigenous sign language. So, it was a very particular setting, and I only did that once. So no, I usually never do it between my vocal languages.

00:15:13 Julie

Except between friends and family, yeah. [Tim: yeah]

00:15:17 Tim

Do you find it harder? I know you haven't done it that much, but do you find it difficult to work between the spoken languages then it is between spoken and sign languages?

00:15:29 Julie

Yes. [chuckles] Obviously, it's because I lack, I lack the training. I have never been trained between two speaking languages, and when I hear my voice, it's bothering me to hear correctly the other person's voice so…

00:15:36 Tim

Yeah.

00:15:48 Julie

It was... It was a cool experience to do that, at that time.

00:15:56 Julie

Because I was, you know, doing it very lightly into the ear of another colleague, but otherwise, should it be with the microphone and headphones and everything like that…

00:16:12 Julie

For me right now, it's oh wow, setting like, I am not ready to do that. [Tim: hmm] And I really don't have the training or qualification. I don't feel like I have the qualifications to do that and it's easier for me to do it with sign language because I'm so used to doing it already between French and French Sign Language. Yeah.

00:16:34 Tim

Yeah, I think as interpreters we can see or feel what we can and cannot do, whereas I know several people who believe because they know more than one language they could, you know, interpret or translate without any problem. But they don't really understand what they don't know.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:16:55 Tim

You do understand what we're talking about, don't you? That's because you're in the interpreting community. Why not join the IW Community where we can learn from each other from around the world? Click on the link in the show notes and join the community. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:17:13 Tim

Can you describe for us like a typical workday as an interpreter in France?

00:17:20 Julie

Well, I don't think we have typical. [both chuckle]

00:17:26 Tim

Typical is atypical, yes, yes. [Julie chuckles]

00:17:30 Julie

Yeah. Do you have typical deals in the Czech Republic? [Tim chuckling: No]

00:17:38 Julie

I think that's what we love as sign language interpreters.

00:17:41 Julie

We don't do 9:00 to 5:00 and we don't do the, the same thing all the time.

00:17:47 Julie

So, a typical day would be that I umm, like today I do, I translate in meeting in the morning and in the afternoon, I have another appointment. This morning was a firm. This afternoon it will be a personal appointment. Tomorrow will be the in-school setting. In the morning and in the afternoon, it's gonna be in a very technical setting. The next day it's going to be another university setting. 

00:18:29 Julie

And in the following day, it's going to be video conference in the morning and another reunion in the afternoon. So, it really…

00:18:42 Julie

It changes all the time and that's why it is interesting. [Tim: Mm-hmm] But I know we do a little differently than in other countries is that we have set an implied rule that we shouldn't work more than four hours of interpreting a day. So those four hours would be two hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon [Tim: Mm-hmm] for example. And that's for actually interpreting.

00:19:19 Julie

But on top of those two hours of actual interpreting, you have the preparation, the time you spend in your car or in public transportation to go to your appointment. The… and everything with administrative related…

00:19:39 Julie

That's when you work on your own, but there are plenty of settings where I work with a colleague.

00:19:46 Julie

I work more often with a colleague than alone, and when we are two people, we can work from 9:00 to 5:00 taking, taking turns obviously, but obviously the rest of our day of work, if we're two people, both of us work 3 1/2 hours or 4 hours each.

00:20:07 Julie

So, that's why we say usually it's going to be a four-hour actual interpreting day, but it depends on what the assignment is, obviously.

00:20:20 Tim

So, for that type of day, that last one you just described, are you still actively feeding and supporting the other interpreter who's actually signing right now, say at the front of the room, or are you are you completely off?

00:20:36 Julie

You know we're, we're supporting.

00:20:39 Tim

OK.

00:20:40 Julie

We're there to, yeah, give, give support, give information, if something is missing.

00:20:47 Julie

Obviously at some point you try and take like a five-minute break and just maybe sometimes you just completely disconnect. But you're, you're still supposed to be here and to, to be present for your colleague. But sometimes you know, like everybody, sometimes you just drop it or need a real break, but usually we try to have that real break with everybody else. 

00:21:17 Julie

But the ideal setting is that you're still there to keep supporting your colleague. Yeah.

00:21:24 Tim

Four hours a day, so if you're not teaming with someone, you you're really limited in how many hours you can work then or is it flexible policy or is it frowned upon if you take on more work?

00:21:36 Julie

You know, it's, it's not a set policy. It's more of a recommendation [Tim: hmm] so that you take care of your health, and you don't hurt yourself. [Tim: Mm-hmm] So, it's really more of a recommendation.

00:21:55 Julie

Something that the National, National Association has noticed that would be ideal working conditions so that you can last longer as a sign language interpreter. But if you do more...

00:22:09 Julie

Because that day, I don't know, you have three assignments in a day. Well, and you feel like you can do those three assignments in a row. Then you're completely free to do as you as you wish.

00:22:23 Julie

Yeah, but usually if you work for an agency, a sign language agency, they will plan your schedule in accordance to those four hours of interpreting a day.

00:22:38 Tim

Yeah.

00:22:38 Julie

Maybe if they have another assignment in the evening, that assignment will only be to those interpreters who volunteer. Not volunteer on the “you will not be paid”, but volunteer on the “I'm free and I'm able and I can, and you can do that on top of my on top of the day that I’ve already done.” So, it's very up to everybody's appreciation also on how about adding in another assignment, yeah.

00:23:13 Tim

Yeah, that makes sense.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:23:19 Tim

It's very interesting to learn the journey of each of us as sign language interpreters - how someone got the spark, that motivation to join this profession. We all have our unique starting point, our unique way of doing things.

00:23:35 Tim

That motivation comes out of nowhere. Many of the interviewees that I've talked to, they say, “Well, it just kind of happened by accident.” And I would like to differ with that opinion because we all have choices to make and the more decisions we make, the more we determine what the path is that we’re making.

00:23:55 Tim

And for me, I don't regret any decision I've made because I wouldn't be here as we all know, you wouldn't be here today the way we are now.

00:24:08 Tim

For Julie, she started in the US and learned about the Deaf community right in front of her as it unfolded in her high school. But that spark was fueled by something inside her, her travel bug, her, her need to learn, new cultures, new languages and about people.

00:24:27 Tim

And I think that can help us look back at our own journey and realize it was meant to be that way. We made it happen that way because of something inside of us, what we liked, our interests, our opinions, our worldview, all of that led us down the path that we are on now.

00:24:46 Tim

Sometimes we forget that, and sometimes we're looking outside, looking outside for someone else to help lead us there. But it's actually the person inside us. It's what we want, what we need, what we look for that guides us.

00:25:03 Tim

For me it was very interesting to learn about the Deaf Awakening in the 1970s in France, a bit of history that shows us how the community is small. We say it all the time. “The Deaf community is small” or “The interpreting community is small.” “Be careful what you say, what you do.” Well, we also need to think about the positivities… positivities?

00:25:23 Tim

The positive aspects of that as well, we are small and we might have our fights or our squabbles here and there, but we're there to support each other.

00:25:34 Tim

We're there when it really counts for the things that really matter, and I think that attributed to the working conditions that interpreters have in France. Imagine having an outlook of taking care of yourself by only having maybe four hours a day of interpreting.

00:25:53 Tim

Having the mentality of take it easy, only do what you can do.

00:25:58 Tim

Which includes looking for support in the Deaf community, the Deaf interpreters, the Deaf translators, those help support the hearing interpreters and vice versa. We go back again to that small community we're all working for the same goal because our job is not typical.

00:26:18 Tim

I can't wait till next week when we talk more with Julie from France. Until then, keep calm. Keep typically interpreting. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:27:06]