IW 153: InterpreTips: From Flamey Bits to International Sign

Twirling flames, Batman! They're signing over there!

Ever wonder how you can learn International Sign (IS)? Well, here's how I did it and now work as an IS/English interpreter. I tell my journey into this part of the signed language interpreting profession and how my travels influenced my interpreting work.

These are my insights into how you too can learn IS and also improve your everyday sign language interpreting services.

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Transcript

IW 153: InterpreTips: From Flamey Bits to International Sign

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim [ONLY TIM SPEAKS IN THIS EPISODE]

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34

And now the quote of the day by author Terry Pratchett...

00:00:40

“Why do you go away? So that you can come back. So, that you can see the place you came from with new eyes and extra colors. And the people there see you differently too. Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving.”

00:01:01

Traveling and traveling quotes are sooo, so hard to describe to someone who doesn't know – traveling. There are so many quotes I could have used that sums up my feelings. As an avid traveler, as a lover of new places, new languages, new peoples.

00:01:23

This quote pretty much sums it up.

00:01:27

Traveling opens our eyes, helps us learn, helps us find out things we didn't understand about ourselves and about where we came from.

00:01:40

It's kind of like having a debate with two people of the same opinion. You don't really learn much about that opinion until you have a debate with someone with an opposing opinion.

00:01:54

That's why you debate, to learn and understand what your position, what your opinion, what your belief really is, how strong it is and how structured, how firm, what you believe is.

00:02:13

Traveling, learning about the new places, finding out how the languages work and how the language is so ingrained in the places we are.

00:02:27

Recently in the social media world of sign language interpreters I have noticed a strong interest in learning International Sign, traveling, moving to work abroad. Is it just me noticing this? Is it more than usual or is it just in my vision? Well, today I'd like to talk a little bit about that travel bug and the interest in International Sign and what implications it has for sign language interpreters, especially hearing sign language interpreters.

00:03:01

Knowing new languages is wonderful; is great. It opens our minds.

00:03:09

It actually changes our character to a certain degree. How we communicate when we use different languages we think differently. We have to think of the cultural inclinations, the way of considering decisions based on how the language is used.

00:03:30

So, let's consider these things. I will give my experience. I have not researched this, but through my experience, through my understanding of what has happened to me in my travels, in my work, in my professional life, in my development, in my drinking of coffee, all of those today…

00:03:51

…as we talk about possibly a new phenomenon or an old one, or just the same old regular occurrence of people loving travel and wanting to learn International Sign. Why?

00:04:07

Hmm.

00:04:08

Why not?

00:04:09

Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:04:12

I started traveling internationally solo just after I had been interpreting for a few years. I left and went on my international excursion alone for weeks at a time.

00:04:28

And during those travels, on occasion, I would meet local deaf groups or individuals.

00:04:36

I even looked up deaf organizations to visit deaf clubs. Anything I could just to try to get a feel for the cultural differences, the nuances, and whether or not I could communicate. Many times it was just an accident that I would meet someone at the right time, when I needed directions.

00:05:00

Say… at the train station or just walking around a city.

00:05:05

And I found that using a lot of gestures that were iconic, using the facial expressions that I had used through ASL, and acting – miming out what I needed, I could quickly exchange some signs back and forth from the local sign language and ASL.

00:05:26

And most of the time, everyone was polite and excited to meet me and had a wonderful conversation. Ask me questions about why I was traveling solo, why I was a sign language interpreter, but I wasn't really using their language.

00:05:41

But I did pick up signs and expressions and tidbits of the language and language use in each of these countries that I traveled to, and that was the beginning of not International Sign for me.

00:06:00

But it was more of a beginning of opening up my mind to real interpreting process. What does that mean? Well, I started thinking beyond words, beyond ASL, beyond English, and thought more in the concept.

00:06:19

What is the meaning? What is the goal for this interaction? What do I need to get across? And so, I pictured in my mind what the goal was. Now, how do I convey that without actually knowing the real signs, or the real words, even for this concept?

00:06:38

That's when it started clicking and it affected, it influenced how I worked as an interpreter back home.

00:06:51

No, I didn't add new signs to my vocabulary in ASL from another signed language.

00:06:58

But I got rid of the source language in my head a lot more efficiently.

00:07:06

Because I had already stretched that muscle of how do I convey this concept? Not what is the sign for this? What is the word for this?

00:07:17

It took my interpretation skills to the next level, or perhaps it opened up a realization of what it really meant to interpret this way.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:07:32

There were two key moments I would say that influenced my journey from that first trip.

00:07:41

One moment was in Scotland.

00:07:43

I looked for what I thought was a deaf club in Edinburgh and I found that it was closed. Hmph. But then I met someone who told me there was an actual BSL class that evening at that location.

00:08:01

So, I just showed up.

00:08:03

And when I showed up, there was a line of students all college age students.

00:08:09

And I remember them all kind of looking at this creepy American who was just kind of standing there, loitering, looking around at everybody and everybody just kind of looked at me but accepted me standing there right, even though I wasn't a part of their group. So that awkwardness that I felt, I tried to push away so that I could have this experience.

00:08:32

And in a few minutes, the teacher arrived, unlocked the door, turned around, waved at everybody to come in. When she saw me, she did a double take, and then a little puzzled look on her face. But then she just turned and walked inside, and I just followed everyone in.

00:08:49

And when I came in the classroom the teacher looked at me and asked me a few things in BSL and I signed “American” and gestured, “Can I sit down for the class?” And she was like, “Ohh yeah. Come on in. No problem. Have a seat.” I sat there and actually learned the lesson in BSL that evening and I think it was a beginning BSL class because it was rather basic.

00:09:17

But after the class I then had a conversation with this teacher. We went to a restaurant, sat down and chatted for maybe 2 hours that evening.

00:09:30

That was a wonderful moment in my travels. Now understand, I meet people on my travels all the time and have a lunch with them or a coffee. But as a sign language interpreter, this meant a little bit more.

00:09:43

I exchanged language and interacted with ASL and some BSL and had a real conversation, a deeper conversation than just sign, sign, sign, “train this way”, “train that way.”

00:10:00

And from that few hours, I learned initially enough signs to get by to interact just like you do when you think of traveling to, say, Italy, you learn how to say hello. You learn how to say thank you. Please all of those small, polite words to get by.

00:10:24

The second is a story that most of you know. It's how I eventually got to where I am now.

00:10:31

I was on the street in Dublin. It was nighttime. There was a juggler, juggling fire sticks. Whatever you call them. Sticks of fire. No, that's not right. Big matches, dangerous flamey things.

00:10:45

And there was a large crowd circled around him, and while I was watching this performance, I happened to notice some gesturing, perhaps signing out of the corner of my eye. I looked over and I watched for a few seconds, very nonchalantly, of course.

00:11:02

And yes, they were signing, and of course they visually caught me looking and I waved, and I asked if they were Deaf. And that started the conversation for the night. We all went to a restaurant, had a seat and just exchanged language back and forth. These were the Deaf Czechs that started my journey to move to Prague.

00:11:26

I learned a lot of Czech sign language from them, and I became friends and stayed in contact for a couple of years before I eventually came to visit in Prague. And by the time I reached Prague, I knew Czech sign language quite well.

00:11:43

But what I also knew was how to interact when I didn't know the sign, how to bring the concept to life when I didn't know the vocabulary, how to say it differently when you don't have all of those tools.

00:12:00

Make it visual.

00:12:02

Thinking I don't need to have a sign. I can make a facial expression, a body twist, or movement to get the point across.

00:12:13

So being open minded enough and to have basic interpreting skills to know that the interpreting process is not about the vocabulary, it's about the process. It's about getting rid of the language and expressing the concept, the meaning, the intention.

00:12:31

Sometimes we don't need the word. Sometimes we don't need the sign. We just need the intent to be shown.

00:12:39

So how did this turn into me becoming an International Sign interpreter? Hmm. Good question.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:12:46

A big thank you to everyone who shares this podcast with a colleague and friend. If you want to support the show even more, check out the show notes for links to Buy Me A Coffee because it's very embarrassing to fall asleep during an interview. Thank you. Let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:13:03

My journey into IS interpreting was influenced by many factors. One of course, my journeys and meeting not just these two encounters, but many others in many countries.

00:13:21

But when I moved here, I continued and am continuing to become more and more fluent in Czech sign language.

00:13:29

Having fluency in two signed languages is one factor. I understand they are similar in the structure. The use of space, but all of the vocabulary with a few exceptions is different. The languages are influenced by their cultures…

00:13:50

…in the U.S. by the different cultures of the different states in some instances.

00:13:55

But understanding the grammar of both, understanding the formulation of both, helps me see interpreting from a different perspective, I would say from a cleaner perspective. And what I mean is I'm cleaning out a “one perspective” thought.

00:14:15

I'm opening up, myself, to realizing the cultural barriers to our interpretations, the limitations of one language or two languages, one culture and at the same time understanding how this culture influences its language and what the culture actually is made-up of, all of the elements of that community of that society.

00:14:46

And those factors apply when I'm working in another country and I'm working with a group of people from different backgrounds, different cultures, different language identities.

00:15:00

It allows me to keep in mind their perspective or their worldview is different, but they might be similar to the neighboring country’s view and the more experience I get with traveling to different countries.

00:15:16

Meeting different groups of people allow me to open up that world view and understand that if this doesn't work, I can change the interpretation to this.

00:15:28

Because we not only have to get rid of the source language, we have to subtly get rid of the source cultural influences and add in the cultural influences of the target group to a certain degree.

00:15:44

We can't change it to a neutral language because that doesn't exist.

00:15:51

IS is one of those interpreting systems that has to change and adapt to who the audience is - who the target is. There are definitely some IS vocabulary that is internationally known, internationally accepted certain signs that we use in most places in other places they might use this or that.

00:16:18

They might be influenced from British Sign language or American Sign Language or German Sign Language. Each of those additions help bring the core of IS.

00:16:32

But everything else around it can change and is flexible depending on who your target is who is participating in the conversation.

00:16:43

And that's where it's very interesting to me because it's very similar to the contacts that I had on my travels. We exchanged signs and conceptual meanings just as travelers or as travelers and locals.

00:17:03

And in the interpreting process, the same thing happens to a degree.

00:17:08

You may notice that they use a, a sign that is not a usual IS sign that you would normally use. So, you incorporate their sign into your interpretation.

00:17:21

So, it's less barriers and makes the whole process smoother. And on top of that, you are the lucky one that gets to keep that sign and put it in your tool belt for the next time you see it. You will know what it is now. You know that it's an alternative to use for this particular concept.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:17:48

The other major influence on my is development was teaching sign language interpreting specifically here in the Czech Republic. As you know, many people say, “Well, you can't really teach unless you know the languages.” 

00:18:02

Well, yes, you can, and this relates back to the interview with Sharon Neumann Solow, the most recent one, last December, starting at Episode 134, where she talks about her new book and how she developed the five steps that you can take to improve your skills right now.

00:18:24

Her journey, learning about that over the decades of her experience corresponds to what I felt and what I learned when being a teacher here in my new country.

00:18:37

I learned that I could teach the skills of interpreting, decision making, the development of the interpreting process and analyzing an interpretation without truly knowing both languages. And it was because I had already developed my interpreting skills, and understanding of my interpreting skills, and the interpreting process, and the decision-making process.

00:19:04

All of that had been influenced by my travels, my contact with other languages and cultures, and understanding how concepts and visual meaning can be displayed without focusing on the language. There are markers, there are patterns that you can see when teaching, when actually expressing and making an interpretation.

00:19:28

We can find those patterns and fix them when there's a problem.

00:19:33

Delving deeper into that process as a teacher helped me understand it even more. Help me find the reasons behind the “whys” behind why I knew it was this way. Being able to teach made me make sure that what I knew was right.

00:19:58

And it helped me to analyze my IS usage. My expression in International Sign, and therefore, my interpretations in International Sign.

00:20:09

Now it didn't just pick up IS by osmosis by contacting deaf people around the world, no. I did take mentoring by Deaf who were already fluent, if you can say fluent in IS.

00:20:27

Working with them and developing my skills in that system allowed me to interpret on the spectrum between languages and International Sign system. Being able to move within that, being able to accommodate different people from different countries, different cultures, different language, different backgrounds, adjusting and adjusting and taking the feedback and applying it to the interpretations that takes time.

00:20:59

It's very hard to teach it in an isolated classroom setting. You have to be among those who are using it to improve your skills and reception in IS. And I have been very fortunate to travel and to meet many friends along the way that have helped me gain that…

00:21:22

…that experience, that development ladder.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:21:32

So, if you're really, really wanting to learn IS, well you can. There are multiple ways of doing it, but I suggest – think about the influences that I had that helped me acquire this system, visual language.

00:21:48

First, travel. Go to a foreign country, meet with others using different sign languages and I definitely recommend learning a second signed language that will expand your visual vernacular, your space use, your language use, your understanding of concepts without language. Think about some of the international conferences. Attend them. Those may just be your first step. A place where you can get concentrated-immersion in a short period of time.

00:22:27

And you might meet a few friends along the way.

00:22:31

Yes, look for those workshops. Look for those courses that might be out there and perhaps we'll be growing in the future, but your best bet is just like a language. Learn it from those who use it, enjoy a little bit of travel, meet others and use it. Try. Step out of your comfort zone and be an international traveler.

00:22:57

Until then, keep calm, keep… [long pause]

00:23:01

I didn't want to use language there. I have a feeling you know what I was going to say. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:23:44]