IW 149: Interview Paul Michaels Part 3: Openly Transparent - If You Care, Don't Fix It

Through the Looking Glass... Reflecting on the transparent Mirror

Research, research, research! ...and more. Dr Paul Michaels explains how his study relates to our everyday work as sign language interpreters. It is a fascinating discussion about ethics, transparency, identity comfort, the meaning of a "caring profession" and much more.

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Transcript

IW 149: Interview Paul Michaels Part 3: Openly Transparent - If You Care, Don't Fix It

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by the Dalai Lama.

00:00:39 Tim

“A lack of transparency results in distrust and a deep sense of insecurity.”

00:00:47 Tim

Today we talked again with Dr Paul Michaels. We delve deeper into his research, which connects to ethics, networking, transparency, identity, some of the reasons why male interpreters do what they do.

00:01:07 Tim

So many points, so many connections, so much to discuss.

00:01:12 Tim

So, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:19 Tim

Because of where you've been and where you are in your journey, not necessarily the actual location. How do you now perceive practical decisions / ethical decisions or dilemmas differently from when you first started?

00:01:35 Paul

Yeah, I would say that when I first started interpreting, I didn't really understand or appreciate...ethics.

00:01:48 Paul

I mean, that wasn't, you know, when, when I think back to being a communication support worker and, and how a lot of us start our interpreting career in the UK. We're not taught that, we're not taught about the ethical dilemmas that can happen when we're in front of a student, for example.

00:02:05 Paul

We, we sometimes think that ethical dilemmas happen in very high-stake situations. But they don't, they happen also on a daily basis. [Tim: yeah]

00:02:15 Paul

So, I now appreciate that we can't avoid ethical dilemmas. They happen constantly throughout the day.

00:02:24 Paul

But it's how we deal with them. That's really key, I think. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:02:28 Paul

So…

00:02:30 Paul

When we think about do I interpret that profanity that that person is saying or signing or?

00:02:39 Paul

Do I, do I interpret that person knowing that that person also wants to speak? You know, who? Who do I interpret first? Who do I give the floor to?

00:02:49 Paul

Do I accept a job knowing that maybe I'm not the best person for the job but I've seen it advertised so many times and I know that it's not being picked up? Do I put myself forward for that? Those are all dilemmas that happen constantly with us, as, as interpreters. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:03:05 Paul

So, I would say that now, after so many years working as an interpreter, I'm much more reflective and much more thoughtful. I'm much more considerate of what my actions will be.

00:03:18 Paul

And I'm much more open to say, you know, “I, I know I'm not the best interpreter for this but let's have a discussion and see if I'm going to be a good enough fit for what you need.” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:03:35 Paul

Knowing that we don't have huge diversity in the UK when it comes to backgrounds of interpreters, knowing that there is a lack of interpreters out there, you know.

00:03:44 Tim

I, I get messages constantly throughout the day. I could, I could do my day three times over with the amount of jobs that constantly go out, so I know that deaf people and hearing people and not having access to each other on a daily basis. [Tim: hmm]

00:04:02 Paul

So, I think about doing least harm.

00:04:08 Paul

And you know, if harm has to happen.

00:04:12 Paul

You know, if I'm not the most appropriate interpreter, at least I won't be doing too much harm if I do a particular job with a particular client [Tim: Mm-hmm] or a deaf person or hearing person.

00:04:25 Paul

And so that's how I kind of approach it and that's how I kind of think about the ethical dilemmas. I really process that, that dilemma much more than I did when I first started. And I will use… Well, certainly within my professional supervision, I will talk about issues that have happened.

00:04:48 Paul

And think about how I might do something differently in future, whilst appreciating that…

00:04:55 Paul

You know the, the stars will not align perfectly to the same situation I had before. You know it's going to be a different person, a different environment, but there could be elements that I could perhaps introduce in the future. [Tim: Yeah] But also, sometimes I discuss jobs that are coming up.

00:05:12 Paul

You know, and, “Oh you know, I’m a little concerned about this job. You know how I might approach it, how I might be perceived.” And so… I often then, kind of, sort of fully arm myself going into a job.

00:05:26 Paul

But I think that network of people is really key when it comes to dilemmas.

00:05:33 Paul

Asking for advice, but not, not, not taking on board exactly what somebody says, you know, so.

00:05:43 Paul

That's one of the biggest issues with being a professional supervisor. People would say to me, “What would you do?”

00:05:50 Paul

And I have to respond to them and say, “I'm not you. I wasn't in that situation. I haven't grown up, you know, in the same way that you have everything about me is different to you. But let's explore the avenues and let's explore the options.” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:06:07 Paul

So, I do take a lot of advice from people.

00:06:11 Paul

And I will then think about, OK, what's the best course of action and hope that I do the very least amount of harm, if any harm is, is, caused. But what I've found generally is that….

00:06:26 Paul

The concerns that I might have about “doing harm” just aren’t real.

00:06:30 Tim

Yeah.

00:06:30 Paul

Because most people are very grateful to have an interpreter in, in, you know, in any situation.

00:06:36 Paul

So, harm is not all, you know, not really on the, on the table.

00:06:40 Tim

We need to remember that our clients are intelligent. They understand some of the dilemmas that they might face if they don't get an interpreter. That's exactly who they want. They know it's not going to be perfect. I think what you were kind of alluding to at one point it was something like being transparent with our clients telling them, “Obviously I'm not the best fit here because I'm not from your background.”

00:07:04 Tim

And that immediately alerts them to: we might ask for clarification; we might need to change something; and I think that transparency is key. [Paul: hmm]

00:07:15 Tim

At least until we have, you know, the perfect profession where we have an interpreter for every deaf person that's perfectly aligned, which it's a dream that we probably will never have.

00:07:26 Paul

Exactly. And I think that that's where, that's where the, the beauty of looking back from when I first started as an interpreter compared to now.

00:07:38 Paul

In that, I'm, I'm much more comfortable in saying, you know, saying something to somebody to manage their expectations. Whereas I think when I first started out and I don't think this is uncommon, but we don't want to look as though we can't do the job. [Tim chuckling] So, we won't say anything and then we'll do something which will upset someone.

00:08:01 Paul

We know that we, you know, we, we’re gonna do it and it was gonna upset someone. But we do it anyway. Whereas the, the wonderful thing about hindsight is looking back and saying.

00:08:10 Paul

You know, if only I’d told them that I hadn't ever worked in that domain before.

00:08:16 Paul

You know, or I've never interpreted that procedure before or, you know, I didn't know where to sit in that situation. [Tim: Uh-huh] So I'm, I'm very, very happy now to be very open and transparent. [Tim: Yeah]

00:08:29 Paul

Whilst obviously reassuring people that I'm qualified and I'm… [both chuckling] Setting up expectations, I think it's really quite key and I think people appreciate that. I think they understand that. You know I, I recently was contacted by an organization.

00:08:47 Paul

And I, you know, they, they asked me to do a particular job.

00:08:50 Paul

And I contacted them and I said, “Well, let's have a chat before.” And I said, you know, we had a chat. I said, “You know, I've not worked in your organization before.” It's a, it's a very…

00:09:02 Paul

It's… (maybe I'll just kind of say) It's a, a Research Center for deaf people.

00:09:09 Paul

And I had never worked in that environment before and was, you know, a little bit nervous about that. And I had a chat and I said, “Look, let's, let's have a real, honest conversation about am I the right interpreter for this?”

00:09:21 Paul

And we talked and they said, you know, “We can provide you with lots of preparation. We'll find you a co-interpreter who has worked in this area. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And has experience to be able to support you.” I mean this is, you know, I qualified in 2011. So, we're looking at 14 years qualified and I'm, in fact I'm probably more cautious now [Tim chuckling] with you know, with, with the lovely knowledge [Tim: Mm-hmm] than I was when I first started.

00:09:48 Paul

So, I'm very happy to talk and have those conversations about am I the appropriate person. And I did the job, and it went very well. [Tim chuckling] So you know, it's that, that openness and honesty, I think.

00:10:01 Tim

Yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:10:07 Tim

So, Paul, we've talked a lot about the main question of your PhD. Were there any other aspects that came out that was not necessarily something you thought you would find?

00:10:17 Paul

Yes.

00:10:19 Paul

So, one of the…

00:10:21 Paul

…one of the interesting areas that that came out of the interviews with the male interpreters was to do with gender preferences in work settings. So, for example:

00:10:35 Paul

In nursing, in primary teaching, [Tim: Mm-hmm] the literature shows us that men like to work with other men.

00:10:43 Paul

And that they feel those camaraderie. So, they will, you know, engage with other male nurses or they will, you know, engage with other male teachers in the staff room, for example.

00:10:58 Paul

And [they] really want to build those connections.

00:11:01 Paul

Now male interpreters in the UK, outside of the bigger cities will rarely get to work with other male interpreters if they're co-working on an assignment. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:11:13 Paul

So that's a very different scenario to when you are in a building with other men who are within your department or within your team.

00:11:23 Tim

Right.

00:11:24 Paul

And that is a big difference between other predominantly female professions and sign language interpreting in the UK.

00:11:31 Paul

So, what I found or what the research participants told me was that they were simply interested in the best co-interpreter for the job. It didn't matter their gender. It didn't matter whether they were male or female. [Tim: Mm-hmm] What they wanted was a good attitude.

00:11:49 Paul

They wanted that more than linguistic skills, a lot of the time. They wanted somebody that they were going to be able to work collaboratively with, and female interpreters were seen as potentially more collaborative than male interpreters. So sometimes there was a preference to work with a female interpreter over a male interpreter.

00:12:12 Paul

And sometimes it was to do with the personal connection. So, if they already had a personal connection with a female interpreter, they would, you know, they put a call out for a job and a few people came back. They would choose the female interpreter over the male interpreter because they knew them. They knew that they could work well with them, [Tim: Mm-hmm] et cetera.

00:12:31 Paul

So, that gender preference is quite different to what we find in the literature, in other predominantly female professions.

00:12:40 Paul

Also, going back to what I was talking about, being a linguistic or caring profession, [Tim: Mm-hmm] I was quite surprised at the amount of men who said it is undoubtedly a linguistic profession, but you cannot do the job without being caring.

00:13:00 Paul

So, they really recognize the caring elements of the role.

00:13:05 Paul

And they are not trying to distance themselves from that caring element, which some men in, in either predominantly male environments or predominantly female environments would tend to do.

00:13:21 Paul

So, for example, if you get a, a male primary teacher, for example, and…

00:13:29 Paul

And they are often seen as the ones who are going to do the lifting and the carrying, they'll put themselves forward for, for those kinds of jobs [Tim: Mm-hmm] and roles within the, within the school. They would be maybe less inclined to do the more pastoral care elements.

00:13:46 Paul

And…

00:13:48 Paul

So, you'll find that that the men tend to gravitate towards the, let's say, the expected gender norms within that environment. [Tim: hmm]

00:14:01 Paul

Male interpreters that I interviewed didn't distance themselves from that caring element. You know they will, they will give that person a hug who's just found out that they've got a terminal diagnosis, or they will, you know, be there to support somebody in a moment of distress.

00:14:20 Paul

And they, they actually, [sighs] I guess “embrace” it is maybe too strong a word, but they don't shy away from it. [Tim: Mm-hmm] They're absolutely happy with it generally.

00:14:33 Paul

And so…

00:14:36 Paul

Yeah. So, they, they feel as though that they, they have those abilities to be caring.

00:14:42 Paul

But primarily make sure that that information is coming between those two people, which is good.

00:14:51 Tim

So do we know if the males in the profession, at least the ones that you questioned, did they have this feeling of carer before they came into the profession or did the profession kind of give them the perspective of, yeah, I should be more this way.

00:15:08 Tim

Which do you think it is?

00:15:10 Paul

I think it, it would depend on the individual and I think it's possibly a combination of both.

00:15:15 Tim

OK.

00:15:16 Paul

I think that, you know, some men that I interviewed came from, I would describe it as a caring, empowering, advocacy type, environment. [Tim: hmm] So maybe they were…

00:15:32 Paul

…a youth worker and they we had a deaf person coming to the service. They had to learn sign language and that's how they ended up becoming an interpreter. But they were already in an environment that was quite nurturing, [Tim: OK] and not caring so much, but more, more empowerment and advocacy.

00:15:53 Paul

So, some of the men did reframe the word caring into enablement or empowerment. [Tim: right] So, they simply reframed it as advocacy rather than caring.

00:16:07 Paul

Which I think is actually more appropriate. You know we're not, we're not carers. [Tim: right] We are enablers. We are advocates. We are fighters for justice, for equal access to deaf people, you know, to the information they require. So, I think that they're reframing it in quite the most appropriate way.

00:16:27 Paul

But they're not afraid to say that they care about the people that they're working with and will go the extra mile.

00:16:35 Tim

Yeah, I wonder why that's not the same in the other professions.

00:16:39 Paul

Well, I suspect you know something within nursing you're trying to fix someone. [Tim: Aha, hmm]

00:16:46 Paul

You know. I'm not trying to fix my client, deaf people that I work with. I am enabling them to have access to the information that they need to be able to make informed decisions. [Tim: hmm]

00:16:58 Paul

Whereas, you know, I guess somebody that's in a hospital bed. That's very vulnerable, I mean…

00:17:04 Paul

It does annoy me sometimes when deaf people get labeled as vulnerable communities or disabled communities because you know, a lot of the deaf professionals that I work with are certainly not vulnerable. They're not disabled.

00:17:18 Paul

Society disables them by not having an interpreter or by being not Deaf aware, but they are certainly not vulnerable adults. And I think that, you know, if you're in a hospital, you're there because something's not working, and it needs to be fixed and we need to care to get that fixed. Maybe that's what… and of course…

00:17:37 Paul

Like in a primary school environment, one is needing to nurture children [Tim: Mm-hmm] and you know, guide them on, on the path, you know, that they can best take. Whereas you know, I work mostly with deaf adults who have their own mind, if they want to do something, I'm providing them with the access to be able to do that.

00:18:00 Paul

It might not necessarily be what I would do myself or you know, but at least I'm giving them that access to be able to do that.

00:18:08 Paul

So, I think there is a difference in those - between those professions.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:18:12 Tim

This podcast isn't making itself. That's right, it's me and those I interview, so why not Buy Me A Coffee and support the podcast? Help me keep it going. Click on the links. Thank you for your support.

00:18:25 Tim

Let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:18:28 Tim

I interrupted your train of thought. Please. What other areas did you find that, that would be interesting.

00:18:35 Paul

Yeah, I think as well when it comes to the freelance and, and the remuneration I've touched on it a little.

00:18:42 Paul

But I think that we are in…

00:18:45 Paul

Well, we definitely are in a profession that is freelance. Most UK interpreters are freelance. So, remuneration is a tricky, tricky one because we know that there is a gender pay gap.

00:19:00 Paul

And we know that that happens in many professions.

00:19:05 Paul

And I didn't really get to the knob of if it happens within sign language interpreting because people are freelance, they can quote whatever that they want to quote. [Tim: Mm-hmm] However, it is recognized that men will be more confident in charging more or quoting more initially.

00:19:26 Paul

And I counter that with… Sometimes I will be surprised at how much female interpreters are charging. Sometimes they'll tell me how much they're charging if I'm co-interpreting, and I'll think, wow, I'm, I'm not charging as much as that. [Tim chuckles]

00:19:40 Paul

If that happens with male interpreters as well.

00:19:42 Paul

I think, I, I think, you know, I'm not…

00:19:45 Paul

I'm not particularly savvy or you know, [both slightly amused] I'm not good at quoting and I'm, you know. BUT that aside…

00:19:55 Paul

Men are more confident to quote more and therefore they get more. [Tim: hmm] 

00:19:59 Paul

Now this is, this can also benefit interpret- female interpreters, because if there's a pool of interpreters and a male interpreter negotiates what everyone within the pool is going to get, then they're going to benefit from that. [Tim: True] 

00:20:17 Paul

So, I did get one research participant who said that that was the case and that later on down the line his female colleague was actually more confident to be able to say, well, OK, this is what I'm going to be quoting in future. So actually, that was a, you know, seen as a positive thing. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:20:34 Paul

But I think, naturally, as well, male interpreters do not always have the caring responsibilities that female interpreters have, so their earning potential is higher [Tim: Mm-hmm] even if their rate may be lower because they can go out and they can work more hours.

00:20:54 Paul

Which very often because of the way that society sees women as carers and the expected carers for children or elderly parents for example, women don't have that flexibility and luxury to be able to do that. So, their earning potential may be greater, the gender pay gap may not be. [Tim: Mm-hmm] We have a, - a Union that sets recommended fees. They're not, they're not mandatory. So many people will charge based on the Union’s recommended fees roughly. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:21:28 Paul

So many interpreters will be charging similar-ish. I don't think you get massive extremes. You may, you know, I don't see people's invoices but…

00:21:41 Tim

Yeah.

00:21:42 Paul

So, that, that's where the, the, the gender pay gap across the interpreting field may be slightly different. And, and one other area that was quite key was the sexual orientation of interpreters. That…

00:21:57 Paul

The, ther-, there is a stereotypical notion within sign language interpreting that all male interpreters are gay, and that's just not true. [both chuckling] I can confirm it's not true. I interviewed most of my research participants were not gay. Now I don't know whether that's just because of who responded to my call for research participants.

00:22:18 Paul

But I think it's, you know, it's that hangover from, from years ago where potentially the male interpreters who were doing jobs that were visible may have been gay. So that's why people may have thought that. [Tim: Mm-Mm]

00:22:34 Paul

It's not.

00:22:35 Paul

I didn't find that that was a substantiated view. However, the interpreting profession in the UK is not dominated by a heteronormative culture. So, you don't have to be a straight person to be a sign language interpreter.

00:22:52 Paul

We are quite diverse in that respect. We're not particularly diverse on maybe ethnic grouping, [Tim: Mm-hmm] but we are definitely diverse on gender and sexuality. Maybe not so much gender, but definitely sexuality. So, it's quite, it's quite, uh, acceptable, I suppose, is the word to be out to your colleagues. [Tim: Mm-hmm] 

00:23:16 Paul

And…

00:23:17 Paul

Interestingly… umm, 

00:23:21 Paul

That's been, I think, since I was, since I was in the profession. But more recently we've, we've had in the UK, we've set up a sort of a WhatsApp group for LGBT+ interpreters and that has deaf interpreters and hearing interpreters within that group as well. And so, so it is…

00:23:41 Paul

It is acceptable [Tim: Mm-hmm] to be from that community as an interpreter, and there, there was a, a recent census, well, 2021 now. [both chuckling]

00:23:52 Paul

So, not so recent […], but…

00:23:56 Paul

Jemina Napier and her colleagues did a census of UK interpreters and they found that about 14 1/2 percent of people within the interpreting and translating profession self-disclosed as being part of the LGBTQA+ community, so that's much higher than is reported on the Office for National Statistics data. [Tim: Aha] So it is a profession that people.

00:24:22 Paul

So, it is a profession that people can be open. And maybe that's why people think that there are a lot of gay men interpreters.

00:24:30 Paul

Because people are more open about it. [Tim: Yeah, yeah.]

00:24:34 Paul

And I recently, you know, or not recently, but a long time ago, I was doing some research for my master’s on Deaf LGBT+, no deaf gay male. Sorry. Not LGBTQ+, it was deaf gay male community. And some people were saying to me that because, again, the deaf community is generally quite accepting of diversity.

00:25:02 Paul

Because primarily the- their overriding factor is that everybody's Deaf. So that's, that's first. So, if you're Deaf, you belong. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And if you happen to be gay or lesbian, transgender you belong anyway, because you're Deaf. [Tim: Right] And so the community is quite open to diversity.

00:25:24 Paul

…the Deaf community. So therefore, maybe that means that the interpreting community are more comfortable to, to be out because the, the deaf community is more open to diversity in that respect.

00:25:36 Paul

But it's an interesting one. It's something that I'd like to do some more research on, specifically interpreters from LGBT+ community.

00:25:47 Tim

With what you just said, the deaf community may be more open to it because of those reasons. What about the hearing communities that we serve? Do they perceive a difference in the profession?

00:25:59 Paul

I'm not sure that they would be aware of that. It's not something that I've explored or asked the hearing people working with deaf people about the identity of their interpreters. I do- yeah - I just don't think it would be on their radar necessarily. I think the organizations who are working with the LGBTQ+ community would probably favor somebody as an interpreter from the community [Tim: Mm-hmm] because of cultural understanding and appropriateness.

00:26:36 Paul

But I don't think that generally in my work people would have a clue about that.

00:26:43 Tim

Yeah, I guess I'm going towards the point of do our hearing clients necessarily need or wish for an interpreter that matches their background as much as the minorities that we serve?

00:26:58 Paul

Do you mean that say for example, if it were a South Asian event they would want an interpreter from a South Asian background. [Tim: Right.] Yeah, I think that they would because of that cultural knowledge and cultural understanding. We have in the UK, the interpreters of color network, which is a fantastic resource where people can find people from diverse backgrounds if their event requires that.

00:27:28 Paul

So, I think that that's great. We are looking at potentially you know where does the LGBT+ community fit into that kind of group? You know, we don't have a website. We don't advertise this group of people, but it's something that we could look at doing in future to be able to meet the needs of the community.

00:27:48 Paul

So yes, I think, I think in certain domains, I think if you go to a medical appointment, it doesn't matter necessarily, [Tim: Mm-hmm] unless of course you are considering the cultural appropriateness of, for example, a male interpreter going to a medical appointment which requires a female needing to disrobe, for example. [Tim: Mm-hmm] Obviously, it's going to be much better to have a female interpreter and potentially a female interpreter from a specific cultural background in those situations. But you know, a general appointment, housing appointment, for example, [I] don't know that it's relevant.

00:28:29 Tim

Right.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:28:33 Tim

So, is there any research that you're working on now, that might be of interest.

00:28:38 Paul

Yeah. So, I've been doing quite a bit of research linked to supervision within interpreting in the UK.

00:28:47 Paul

So, from the perspective of for example, what education providers were talking about supervision.

00:28:56 Paul

What trainees (so, people going through training) we're wanting or understanding about professional supervision.

00:29:06 Paul

And what professional supervisors were hearing from trainees or students going through their education.

00:29:14 Paul

And some interesting disparities in the respect of the educators seem to say, “Yes, we, we tell our students about professional supervision”, but some of the students say, “No, I don't know what professional supervision is”.

00:29:31 Paul

[both laughing] So OK, So what? What? Where's the middle ground here? [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:29:37 Paul

And, but I think the one issue that was raised by providers was that it's not mandatory to talk about professional supervision.

00:29:47 Paul

And so, it's not on the curriculum necessarily. So, they don't really have the time to go into it too deep, [Tim: Mm-hmm] which is a real shame. So maybe the, the use of the word mandatory is, is a tricky one, but basically what they're saying is that it's not on the curriculum and therefore, it doesn't get included in the teaching unless you get a provider who is very progressive and will get somebody in to talk about professional supervision. [Tim: Right]

00:30:16 Paul

Or if - like one particular organization was talking about the fact that they talk about it throughout the, the training, not just one particular session.

00:30:26 Tim

Yeah. If you could just for people who know and don't know, can you define for us, what do you mean by supervision? And is it different from mentoring?

00:30:36 Paul

Yeah, absolutely. So, in the UK we have let's say three different sort of categories.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:30:49 Tim

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow, wow.

00:30:52 Tim

So much in this episode, ethics, networking, using colleagues to help us through the day, supervision which we'll talk about more next week, and transparency.

00:31:06 Tim

We all understand if you're Deaf, you're part of the community. It doesn’t matter your identity, your background, your culture, even your languages. You're still Deaf first, and as he said, that openness, that connection rather influences the interpreting community.

00:31:26 Tim

Interpreters are interpreters - first. We see that first, and therefore it seems to be more accepting of different cultures, identities, languages and so forth. It's a positive aspect of being a sign language interpreter getting that influence from our clients in a positive way.

00:31:48 Tim

Showing our clients how transparent we are about what we are deciding to do, what we are thinking about as we're managing the communication process as we're deciding whether or not we should take this job. Open transparency, honest communication builds trust and makes everyone comfortable in this situation.

00:32:13 Tim

Understanding that this is a caring profession, I would say an empathy-filled profession means that we're not trying to fix it. We're not trying to pull this minority into the hearing culture. We are caring for them, means we do care for them.

00:32:32 Tim

Rather than taking care of them, we are feeling empathy. No matter how we came into the profession we still have that understanding that it's about respect and civility and honest communication for everyone because we care. And that's why I'm sharing this with you in the podcast because I care.

00:32:57 Tim

So, next week we will come back to the question of what is the definition of supervisor from Paul Michaels. Until then, keep calm. Keep openly interpreting.

00:33:11 Tim

I'll see you next week.

00:33:13 Tim

Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:33:49]