IW 142: Interview Isabelle Heyerick Part 4: T.A.P. - A Healthy Crispy Mantra

Space-Time waits for no one! A humbling thought.

We conclude our conversation with Isabelle wrapping up the practical side of her research that can be applied to our work as sign and spoken language interpreters. Her journey with linguistics as one facet of her passion has led to discoveries for us all. What is T.A.P? Listen as Isabelle gives a quick practical use of it for our everyday practice.

Thank you, Isabelle, for your time...and space.

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Transcript

IW 142: Interview Isabelle Heyerick Part 4: T.A.P. - A Healthy Crispy Mantra

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quotes of the day, the first one by Helen Nielsen, American mystery writer.

00:00:43 Tim

“Humility is like underwear, essential but indecent if it shows.”

00:00:52 Tim

Today, as we finish the conversation with Isabelle Heyerick from Belgium, we learn a little of her journey and how it gave her humility, strengthened humility in her life.

00:01:06 Tim

How? Well, you'll just have to listen.

00:01:08 Tim

something I think that we can all take in our journey as we work with people as well.

00:01:16 Tim

There's a little hint for you.

00:01:18 Tim

And the second quote is by another American author, H. Jackson Brown Jr.

00:01:27 Tim

“Every person that you meet knows something you don't. Learn from them.”

00:01:34 Tim

And of course, this quote couldn't be more obvious. Our ongoing education is not just workshops, not just conferences, reading articles.

00:01:46 Tim

No, it's about working together, talking together, meeting others in the profession and out of the profession to learn more about how we can serve others.

00:02:00 Tim

Today we talk more about how Isabelle's research can help us practically in our everyday interpretations.

00:02:09 Tim

We learn more about her passion of linguistics and of course, what does crisps have to do with it.

00:02:17 Tim

Well, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSI]

00:02:20 Tim

[Tim whispering during transition music: Subscribe. You know you want to.]

00:02:23 Tim

Now everyday interpreting practitioners what part of your research can they take and apply to the work?

00:02:31 Isabelle

I think probably the research on the linguistic interpreting strategies.

00:02:37 Isabelle

So, I made a little overview of like what are the strategies that came up [Tim: hmm] for my research with the definition and what examples.

00:02:45 Isabelle

I think that's something they can take into their work immediately. Umm, just kind of becoming more aware of hey, I do make some strategic decisions here.

00:02:57 Isabelle

Another thing I think people can apply into their work is...

00:03:02 Isabelle

Thinking loud, [Tim: Mm-hmm] it's something that's called Think Aloud Protocols or Think Aloud Processes.

00:03:07 Isabelle

It's where you kind of either review your work.

00:03:10 Isabelle

And think aloud about the things you did or you applied in your preparation, and you can do this just as practice where you get like a source text to sign text or somebody who speaks or some other written text.

00:03:25 Isabelle

And you force yourself to like I'm going to prepare this as for an actual interpreting or translation assignment and you think aloud.

00:03:33 Isabelle

You think aloud about the things you hear or the signs you see, or what you read. And you think about, “OK, how am I going to interpret this?”

00:03:41 Isabelle

It's gonna learn you so much about your own process.

00:03:44 Isabelle

It's gonna learn you so much about the things that actually make you kind of block and you're like actually, I’ve no idea what to do with this and the things that go very smoothly for you, so you will understand your strengths and your weaknesses and where can work on.

00:04:03 Tim

Yeah.

00:04:03 Isabelle

I mean that's something that's easily to be applied.

00:04:07 Tim

Now you said and we all know that interpreters work with other humans, obviously, at least so far anyway.

00:04:15 Tim

We'll see how the future holds. [both chuckle]

00:04:19 Tim

Hello, I'm an AI interpreter.

00:04:23 Tim

But as a researcher, were there moments during your research that you remember and kind of impacted you?

00:04:31 Tim

Not necessarily your study itself, but as a person, how have you been affected that way?

00:04:38 Isabelle

So many ways, so many ways so... [sighs]

00:04:43 Isabelle

So many different stages of my research career. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:04:51 Isabelle

I think…probably being challenged. [Tim: Mmm] What I think was the right thing to do as a researcher.

00:05:01 Isabelle

Being challenged on how I was educated as a researcher. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:05:07 Isabelle

Umm, challenged to see things differently.

00:05:10 Tim

How?

00:05:13 Isabelle

Umm. So being trained as a, as a linguist, as a sign linguist. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:05:20 Isabelle

But then during my time coordinating the Flemish Sign Language Center, working with native signers, and understanding that my understanding of sign language, even though “master’s from the university” is nothing.

00:05:37 Tim

Yeah.

00:05:38 Isabelle

…is nothing and is biased.

00:05:42 Isabelle

And there's no way for me to say like, yeah, but no, this is a classifier construction. No.

00:05:49 Isabelle

So I think that was like a big shift in, in my, my academic development, but also as, as a human being open to other people's perspectives and how they see things and…

00:06:04 Isabelle

This is going to sound like so, I don't know, “Gen. Z” or whatever. [Tim chuckles]

00:06:09 Isabelle

“What is their truth?”

00:06:11 Tim

Yeah.

00:06:13 Isabelle

 And accept it for that.

00:06:14 Isabelle

And then trying to mold that in what I know and what I understand and how I understand things to be. I think…

00:06:22 Isabelle

The last few years being challenged on my being a white European woman in this profession.

00:06:32 Isabelle

This is mostly thanks to my work for WASLI being eight years, the secretary of a World Association. [Tim: Mmm]

00:06:40 Isabelle

Oh my God.

00:06:42 Isabelle

The privileges are enormous, and my understanding of this profession is a fragment of what the profession actually is.

00:06:52 Isabelle

So that has made me much more humble, which I think is a good thing, which I don't think I was in my early years.

00:06:58 Isabelle

I was not humble at all.

00:07:00 Isabelle

I probably was quite arrogant.

00:07:03 Isabelle

So, I'm quite happy that, that my research and my encounters hadn't have made me a more humble person.

00:07:10 Isabelle

And…umm

00:07:13 Isabelle

The appreciation.

00:07:15 Isabelle

So, I remember one thing that impacted me quite a lot and that also like shifted my, my understanding of the people I work with and of how they perceive me was my PhD research.

00:07:28 Isabelle

Because I needed participants.

00:07:32 Isabelle

And a lot of people in Belgium were told, would tell me before I embarked on this, that I would never find people who would want to work with me in my research because of my “reputation” in the Community. [emotional]

00:07:45 Tim

Ah.

00:07:46 Isabelle

And I was like, “Oh, [sniffs] this is gonna be painful.” 

00:07:50 Isabelle

And then when I actually put my call out for participants…, so I did like a purposeful sampling.

00:07:56 Isabelle

So, I kind of knew who I wanted in my research, so I reached out to these people.

00:08:02 Isabelle

And they all without fail said, “Yes, we'd be delighted.”

00:08:05 Isabelle

And then I heard some people who were disappointed. [chuckles]

00:08:10 Isabelle

That they were not invited to take part, and all of my participants were happy for their data to be used, and I can use it at conferences. I can use it in my publication. I, I gave them pseudonyms, but they were like, “ Ptth, don't need to.”

00:08:26 Isabelle

Like “I'm proud [Tim: hmm] to be part of this research” and I think that that really that was quite emotional, but also very…

00:08:34 Isabelle

Umm…

00:08:36 Isabelle

Yeah, fulfilling for me and made me think about my community a little bit different, yeah. [Tim: yeah]

00:08:45 Isabelle

So, I think overall it has made me a better human. [both chuckle]

00:08:50 Isabelle

I would say, yeah. [Tim: yeah, hmm]

00:08:53 Tim

Well, thank you for that.

00:08:56 Tim

Well, OK. Is there anything else you would like to share?

00:08:59 Isabelle

Yeah, I think I wanna add one more thing.

00:09:02 Isabelle

So again, it goes back to my PhD. I remember with my PhD...

00:09:04 Isabelle

So, you kind of like have to describe the aims and the objectives you have for your PhD. [Tim: yeah]

00:09:10 Isabelle

I remember putting in there, like quite ambitious things. But like, yeah, this PhD is going to change the world. [Tim chuckles]

00:09:18 Isabelle

One of the things I put in there because in my PhD there are also deaf interpreters who participated and at the time there was no official or formal training for deaf interpreters in Belgium.

00:09:32 Isabelle

Or in Flanders at least, well in Belgium, and people who were Deaf and who were working as interpreters could not register with agencies. They could not register with our professional body or anything.

00:09:47 Isabelle

And I had experience working with these people like internationally, locally, nationally.

00:09:54 Isabelle

It just makes our job so much better… [Tim: hmm] …to be able work with, with deaf colleagues.

00:09:59 Isabelle

So, I was like, oh…

00:10:01 Isabelle

So, I remember saying in this PhD research 'cause I'm including deaf interpreters and start try to understand their processes better, I hope that this PhD will lead to formal training and education of sign- of deaf sign language interpreters in Belgium.

00:10:18 Isabelle

And I remember one of my PhD Committee members saying like, “You might want to take that out of your research or PhD objectives, because it's kind of ambitious and I don't see how your PhD will contribute to that.”

00:10:34 Isabelle

I was like, ahhh, I want to leave it in. So, I left it in, like, kind of reformulated, made it a little, like less ambitious. And then honestly, within two years after my PhD, KU Leuven, where I got my PhD has started a deaf interpreting program [Tim: Mmm] and we have now over 20 deaf interpreters who are certified, who can register with the agency who work at the same pay as hearing interpreters, et cetera.

00:11:01 Isabelle

So, this is something like I'm, I'm really happy about.

00:11:05 Isabelle

Obviously, I was kind of involved that project and…

00:11:08 Isabelle

But I do think that because I took things from my PhD to kind of help write the grant proposal to get the funding. Now it was not me, it was like a team. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:11:20 Isabelle

It was KU Leuven who did it.

00:11:22 Isabelle

But I do, hope, feel, think that part of my research contributed to that.

00:11:28 Isabelle

And something I'm really happy about. Kind of, yeah.

00:11:31 Tim

Yeah.

00:11:32 Isabelle

That was a small part in getting that started and accomplishing that, yeah.

00:11:40 Tim

Yeah.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:11:42 Tim

Are you tired of social media shenanigans?

00:11:45 Tim

Well, why not go ol’ fashioned? Subscribe to my newsletter and get the information directly to your inbox, once a month with tips and tricks. Learn about the upcoming episodes and special events. So go to the show notes and click on Subscribe to the Newsletter. Thank you.

00:12:02 Tim

Let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:12:06 Tim

OK. Let's do some word association. [Isabelle: hmm] I'll give you a word or phrase and you give me back whatever comes to your mind first, whether it's a word, phrase, story, emotion, a tune that you want to sing. [Isabelle laughs]

00:12:21 Tim

[laughing slightly] OK. So, the first… comfort food.

00:12:24 Isabelle

Crisps. Sea salted crisps.

00:12:24 Tim

Crisps.

00:12:27 Tim

Sea salt.

00:12:29 Tim

Uh huh. OK. Yeah, I, I understand that completely.

00:12:32 Tim

OK. And the next word…

00:12:35 Tim

Attitude.

00:12:37 Isabelle

Open mindedness, yeah.

00:12:40 Isabelle

Open mindedness, always being open to other people's perspectives, and that's a good attitude.

00:12:47 Tim

Good attitude and we won't talk about the bad attitude. [Isabelle chuckles slightly]

00:12:52 Tim

OK, confusing.

00:12:55 Isabelle

Life. [laughs]

00:12:57 Tim

Life.

00:12:57 Isabelle

It's confusing. Yeah.

00:13:01 Isabelle

I sometimes try to uh…

00:13:04 Isabelle

Yeah, it's hard to understand them to see where your little kind of place is in the big machine. [Tim: hmm]

00:13:13 Isabelle

Yeah. Confusing. Life.

00:13:16 Tim

And next… linguistics.

00:13:20 Isabelle

My identity. Yeah.

00:13:24 Isabelle

So much…

00:13:25 Isabelle

To me, to me, it's so much like. Yeah, it's, it's part of my identity. It's my expertise.

00:13:32 Isabelle

It’s my profession, but it's also my passion, something I see everywhere in everything. Yeah.

00:13:40 Tim

Next funny.

00:13:42 Isabelle

Stand-up comedy in Ireland.

00:13:44 Tim

Oh really?

00:13:45 Isabelle

It's very funny. [both laugh]

00:13:48 Isabelle

It's a good antidote to the confusing aspect of life, sometimes.

00:13:53 Isabelle

They keep it quite simple. [both chuckling]

00:13:56 Isabelle

But funny, yeah. Irish stand-up comedy. I, I recommend.

00:14:01 Tim

I'll have to do that the next time I'm in Dublin.

00:14:04 Isabelle

Oh, yeah.

00:14:05 Tim

OK. And next technology.

00:14:10 Isabelle

Opportunities. [Tim: hmm] Opportunities. Yeah, I think we should embrace, but with like a sense of ethics. [Tim: hmm]

00:14:20 Isabelle

Well, I did a course which is called Big Data AI and Ethics.

00:14:26 Isabelle

We talked about technology, big data, the whole AI developments and how ethics should or could play a role in that.

00:14:36 Isabelle

But I do…

00:14:37 Isabelle

I am a believer in the opportunities of technology and I'm actually like…

00:14:41 Isabelle

I hope technology will improve our overall life where maybe we don't have to do some of the not so nice jobs anymore and have more time for yoga, and comfort food, and whatnot. [Tim laughing and sighing]

00:14:58 Tim

Yes, let's all have our mantra and our chips right next to us, yes.

00:15:03 Isabelle

Exactly.

00:15:06 Tim

And the last one… maybe…

00:15:10 Tim

Pet peeve.

00:15:12 Isabelle

Probably too many to be good for my mental health.

00:15:18 Isabelle

Hmmm, aww, I have so many.

00:15:19 Isabelle

I'm a very opinionated person, I'm afraid. [Tim chuckles]

00:15:25 Tim

Give us one, the first one that came to mind.

00:15:29 Isabelle

Meat eaters being intolerant for vegans. I think, pet, pet peeve…

00:15:35 Isabelle

No, let's, let's just make it a broad one: intolerance.

00:15:38 Tim

Intolerance.

00:15:39 Isabelle

Yeah, so I'm a vegan. I'm sober. [laughs]

00:15:45 Isabelle

I live in Dublin. [Tim laughs]

00:15:47 Tim

So, you have at least potatoes to eat, yeah.

00:15:51 Isabelle

No, that's fine. The food is fine.

00:15:54 Isabelle

It's more like the intolerance of other people [Tim: yeah] of me not drinking and I’m a vegan.

00:16:00 Isabelle

I think intolerance, intolerance and like anything that has to do with social injustice and…

00:16:06 Isabelle

It's a pet peeve, I mean…yeah.

00:16:08 Isabelle

From the big ones to the, to the small ones like you not being kind, unkindness. Yeah.

00:16:15 Tim

Yeah.

00:16:16 Isabelle

I don’t, I don't deal well with those kind of things.

00:16:19 Tim

Yeah, yeah, I know here in Prague, when I first moved, speaking of vegan, vegetarian, [Isabelle: Mm-hmm] there were a few places and now it's just exploded here.

00:16:26 Isabelle

Mm-hmm, yeah

00:16:32 Tim

There are many to choose from.

00:16:34 Isabelle

Yeah.

00:16:34 Tim

I myself am not, but I love…Well, I love all food.

00:16:39 Tim

How is Dublin as far as the fare there?

00:16:43 Isabelle

Yeah. So, it's actually quite good to be honest.

00:16:46 Isabelle

Now I must say, when I first moved here, we had a lot of like uniquely vegan or vegetarian restaurants.

00:16:53 Isabelle

So, you go there and it's only vegan or vegetarian. Now these over the three years I've been here have closed down most of them.

00:17:02 Tim

Hmm.

00:17:03 Isabelle

And I think it's because the mainstream restaurants all have a vegan/vegetarian menu, [Tim: ahh] which is quite elaborate and quite good.

00:17:11 Isabelle

So, what you find here is that it's becoming quite mainstream.

00:17:15 Isabelle

And so the ones who were like The Pioneers and started out, they actually can't survive anymore. Like, this is also a Dublin thing.

00:17:24 Isabelle

Businesses go belly up here every day because of the high costs and everything, but.

00:17:31 Isabelle

In general, it's very easy to find vegan or vegetarian food here.

00:17:37 Isabelle

There are still a couple of places that are exclusively vegan and vegetarian.

00:17:42 Isabelle

Which I tried to support as much as possible [Tim chuckles] but that being said.

00:17:46 Isabelle

I also like the mainstream restaurants having a nice vegan or vegetarian menu because it means I can bring my non-vegan, -vegetarian friends there.

00:17:55 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:17:56 Isabelle

Which is pleasant for everyone. [both chuckle]

00:17:58 Tim

Yeah.

00:17:59 Isabelle

So yeah, no, Dublin is quite good. [Tim: great]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:18:01 Tim

[Whispers during transition music] Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe.

00:18:07 Tim

So, on your journey, throughout your passion for research and sign language interpreting, linguistics, who along the way do you think of as your cheerleader or your supporter, or someone who mentored you?

00:18:22 Isabelle

Right. So probably the cheerleader and supporter would, uh…

00:18:27 Isabelle

…in a way, also mentor, but not specific to my field, but, my mother.

00:18:32 Isabelle

[chuckles] Yeah.

00:18:32 Tim

Of course.

00:18:34 Isabelle

I mean, just to say, like she will come… So, in, in Belgium, we have an annual World Deaf Day, which is a big event, like with lectures and everything. And it's just where the whole deaf community comes together. So as/when I made my first entrance into the deaf community I worked for the Deaf Association, so I was involved in organising that and then later on as a researcher I gave presentations there.

00:19:00 Isabelle

As an interpreter, I interpreted these events.

00:19:02 Isabelle

My mum would come every year.

00:19:05 Tim

Wow.

00:19:06 Isabelle

She doesn’t know sign language. [Tim chuckles]

00:19:09 Isabelle

But she would come every year just to see her daughter [Tim: Mm-hmm] do the things and be proud of me.

00:19:15 Isabelle

So, she's also known in Belgium as Mama Isabelle.

00:19:19 Isabelle

Which has the sign name - the sign for mama and then my sign name, Mama Isabelle, and deaf people would know her.

00:19:26 Isabelle

So, she's definitely, yeah.. She's always like…

00:19:29 Isabelle

Yeah, been a supporter and been there throughout the journey.

00:19:34 Isabelle

And then in terms of more like the academic and the research journey I, for me, the person who influenced or who inspired my PhD research was Jemina Napier. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:19:50 Isabelle

So, her work on linguistic coping strategies just really informed my work, and I've said this many times.

00:19:59 Isabelle

She knows this like her book was my Bible. [both chuckle]

00:20:02 Isabelle

And I was going through interpreter training and then being an educator myself, I have literally done, uh, drawn on her research to explain to students what, what this is thing we do. So, but also her ethics. Um, how she approaches research, her reflexivity on who she is, who she does the research with and for like her, her whole academic philosophy really inspired me. And also her ability to, to change if it needs to.

00:20:39 Isabelle

I think that's an amazing quality to have as a researcher not thinking that, oh and now I figured it all out.

00:20:45 Isabelle

But understand that times change and that you have to change with the times and, and I think yeah, in that term she, she definitely is a role model for me.

00:20:55 Isabelle

And also, she's a feminist, which also is very good to have. [both laugh]

00:21:00 Isabelle

So, I think for me it'll be Jemina. Yeah.

00:21:03 Tim

Yeah.

00:21:05 Tim

So, what next project?

00:21:09 Isabelle

Oooo. The world is my oyster. OK, yeah.

00:21:12 Isabelle

Short term - finish my book.

00:21:15 Tim

Yeah!

00:21:16 Isabelle

Yeah.

00:21:17 Tim

What's that about?

00:21:18 Isabelle

It's my PhD research, turning it into a book that's more accessible and is more geared towards practitioners like your question: [Tim: Mm-hmm] What could they use immediately for their research?

00:21:32 Isabelle

This book, this book, will really be hands on.

00:21:37 Isabelle

And seeing like, how can you apply this in your work?

00:21:39 Isabelle

How can it be applied in education and interpreting training?

00:21:43 Isabelle

So, I've been working on it for a while now and it really is my aim for this year to have it - finish the manuscript and send off to the to the publisher.

00:21:55 Isabelle

So, it will be published by Gallaudet University Press.

00:21:59 Isabelle

So that's m,y my short term. And then new research I don't know yet. Like I just finished two research projects.

00:22:06 Isabelle

So, I feel like… [both laugh]

00:22:09 Isabelle

Umm, still a lot to do with the, with the PhD as well.

00:22:13 Isabelle

But the book, yeah, finishing the book, have that out.

00:22:17 Tim

We look forward to that, yeah.

00:22:18 Isabelle

My next big thing.

00:22:22 Tim

Do you have a title for it yet?

00:22:23 Isabelle

So, my suggestion of title is The Strategic Nature of Interpreting.

00:22:30 Isabelle

And it might be because it's with Gallaudet, we will maybe say The Strategic Nature of Sign Language Interpreting but have signed language between brackets because I do think it speaks to spoken language interpreting as well, like the modality really doesn’t make a difference.

00:22:47 Isabelle

Yeah.

00:22:48 Tim

Yeah. Interpreting is interpreting.

00:22:51 Isabelle

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of strategies, there are some differences because of the modality, like some strategies we can do in sign languages you can't do in spoken languages because we don't have that simultaneity.

00:23:03 Isabelle

We don't have that visual expression of.

00:23:07 Tim

Yeah.

00:23:07 Isabelle

But intrinsically, interpreting is interpreting, yeah.

00:23:10 Tim

Yeah.

00:23:12 Tim

Well, beautiful Isabelle.

00:23:15 Tim

There's so much more we can talk about, but time is a horrible creature, so… [Isabelle laughs]

00:23:20 Isabelle

I don't believe in time. [both chuckling]

00:23:24 Isabelle

It’s a construct.

00:23:25 Tim

It's a beautiful space-time continuum, yes. [Isabelle chuckling: yeah]

00:23:30 Tim

We're, we're all bending towards some gravitational well.

00:23:34 Tim

We just don't know when it's going to collapse.

00:23:37 Isabelle

On that note…

00:23:38 Tim

Yeah, so, on that note, from your neighborhood astrophysicist here, sign language interpreter… No.

00:23:44 Tim

Thank you very much for being here.

00:23:46 Isabelle

Well, you're very welcome.

00:23:47 Isabelle

I'm really appreciative of the invitation, the questions you asked because, like I said, like you always learn something even when you're asked to give your experiences or your knowledge. You look back at some things and go like, ah, interesting.

00:24:03 Isabelle

Yeah, it's an absolute pleasure. [Tim: Thank you.]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:24:12 Tim

This has been a lovely few episodes with Isabelle. What we've learned here can surely help us. Only time, or perhaps space can tell.

00:24:24 Tim

Oh, the gravity of this conversation.

00:24:26 Tim

OK, I will stop the astrophysics side of me trying to make humor for those nerds out there who love it. Thank you.

00:24:34 Tim

Everyone else, you can press play again and I'll start with the summary. [fake coughs]

00:24:41 Tim

So today we learned some really practical strategies that we can use to help in our practice.

00:24:49 Tim

First we do need to be aware of the decisions we make.

00:24:53 Tim

Analyze them.

00:24:55 Tim

Why did I make that choice?

00:24:57 Tim

Why did I make that decision?

00:24:59 Tim

We may think we know in the moment.

00:25:02 Tim

But we need to think about all of the influences for that decision.

00:25:07 Tim

The more we know about how our brain is actually processing it, the better we can analyze the next situation.

00:25:15 Tim

Or the better, we can tell another interpreter, perhaps one of those who is struggling with this type of situation.

00:25:24 Tim

We can practice even though we're not in a class. In a workshop, we should practice our profession.

00:25:32 Tim

Have a dress rehearsal.

00:25:35 Tim

It hones our muscles, our skills.

00:25:38 Tim

And one way to do that is the T.A.P. Think Aloud Protocol or Process.

00:25:45 Tim

Why am I thinking this right now? When I see this, I interpret it this way. Why?

00:25:53 Tim

When I'm looking at preparation materials, what am I thinking about?

00:25:57 Tim

Well say it out loud, not just in your head, but say it out loud.

00:26:01 Tim

Maybe even take notes.

00:26:03

So you can see what you're looking at and what you're not.

00:26:07 Tim

Some good practical tips to help on our journey.

00:26:12 Tim

Isabelle was challenged by doing her research, not only the research itself, the stakeholders, but also her colleagues around her, asking her why are you doing this?

00:26:25 Tim

Are you the right person?

00:26:27 Tim

Seeing certain things in our work they should make us realize that we don't have all the power.

00:26:35 Tim

We shouldn't have all the power.

00:26:37 Tim

We don't have all the answers, just like in life, it teaches us humility, and we should embrace that.

00:26:46 Tim

[chuckling] Be proud of learning humility. No, that doesn't sound right. [fake coughs]

00:26:50 Tim

We should learn from that knowing that we are serving, not controlling, not deciding for others. And when it gets to be too much, go back to your mahntra your maentra.

00:27:06 Tim

However, you want to say it, but make sure you have that bag of crisps next to you. Whatever it is, keep calm and keep humbly interpreting.

00:27:18 Tim

I'll see you next week.

00:27:20 Tim

Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:27:56]