IW 140: Interview Isabelle Heyerick Part 2: Contextual Interpreting Conversations

"It is not for us to reason why...", but JUST to interpret. Not!

Isabelle Heyerick and I have a multi-faceted conversation speaking to interpreting as language-focused, learning to effectively discuss our work as interpreters, involving all stakeholders into our conversations, and even more.

Stayed tuned for the conversation continuation next week.

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Transcript

IW 140: Interview IsabelleHeyerick Part 2: Contextual Interpreting Conversations

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:35 Tim

And now the quote of the day by Dorothy Sarnoff, an American opera singer, Broadway star, and pioneer of the Self-Help movement.

00:00:46 Tim

“Good conversation can leave you more exhilarated than alcohol, more refreshed than the theater or a concert. It can bring you entertainment and pleasure. It can help you get ahead, solve problems, spark the imagination of others. It can increase your knowledge and education. It can erase misunderstandings and bring you closer to those you love.”

00:01:15 Tim

Today we continue the conversation where we left off last episode with Dr Isabelle Heyerick a Belgian interpreter now living and working in Ireland.

00:01:26 Tim

We start with my response to her process model of linguistic strategies.

00:01:31 Tim

She talks about how we should focus more on language in interpreting, and that leads us to a great conversation all about…

00:01:41 Tim

How we as interpreters should have conversations, effective discussions about what we do, our work and our perspectives.

00:01:50 Tim

And Isabelle reminds us from research how the majority of interpreters’ perspectives has not changed from one of the conduit model. Hmm.

00:02:02 Tim

Great conversations.

00:02:04 Tim

So, let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:02:10 Tim

How does that layer on top of or underneath of practical decisions or ethical decisions?

00:02:17 Isabelle

Yeah, that's an interesting one for me.

00:02:22 Isabelle

It's also probably kind of a, a personal…

00:02:30 Isabelle

I don't know if it's a pet peeve.

00:02:33 Isabelle

I just felt when I started my, my PhD, that a lot of work and a lot of thought and a lot of discussions have had been had about ethical things and I was like, “That's so great. Like thinking about the ethics, about our behavior and the practicality. But why are we not focusing on language?” 

00:02:55 Isabelle

'Cause we do all these things through language.

00:02:58 Isabelle

And I felt a little bit like interpreting, the sign language interpreting profession was steering away from the language practices and so focused on these ethical behaviors and these practicalities where I'm like, well, but…

00:03:13 Isabelle

We are primarily working with language.

00:03:15 Isabelle

So, a lot of our ethical decisions actually transpire through language.

00:03:20 Isabelle

So, for me, how it layers up in, in my work and that's done with the post doc was about is about language ideologies.

00:03:30 Isabelle

So, you will see that sometimes interpreters make certain linguistic decisions because they have a certain ideology belief values, about sign languages, about spoken languages, even about deaf people, about what is hearing cultural appropriate and not?

00:03:51 Isabelle

And we might base our interpreting decisions on those assumptions on those ideologies.

00:03:59 Isabelle

So, for me there is, there is a distinction between ethical decisions, ethical practical behavior and linguistic decisions.

00:04:09 Isabelle

But there is also an overlap. Some of our linguistic decisions are based on our ethical beliefs or ethical convictions.

00:04:17 Isabelle

What we think is appropriate.

00:04:18 Isabelle

What is just.

00:04:19 Isabelle

What is wrong.

00:04:20 Isabelle

What is right.

00:04:21 Isabelle

And I do think also part of our interpreting process sometimes… umm, experiences pressure or stress because of ethical things. Right?

00:04:32 Isabelle

If we as interpreters hear, and feel, and see power dynamics that are completely out of balance, where somebody, be it the deaf person or the hearing person, is not treated correctly, there's no way we can block that out, right?

00:04:49 Isabelle

And it will become one of the things that…

00:04:52 Isabelle

…goes on in our mind while we're still going through our interpreting process of listening, finding the semantic equivalent, translating, producing, and coordinating all of this, while also understanding what kind of relationships are happening at the same time.

00:05:13 Isabelle

And where is my place?

00:05:14 Isabelle

Where is my boundary?

00:05:15 Isabelle

Do I speak up?

00:05:16 Isabelle

Do I not speak up? All these things…

00:05:20 Isabelle

So, it's so complex and, umm.

00:05:24 Isabelle

Yeah, I think it's important to understand that full picture, the whole complexity.

00:05:32 Isabelle

And how it is actually intertwined, the linguistics, the strategies, and ethical behavior.

00:05:40 Tim

I agree with you.

00:05:40 Tim

I think we do tend to focus on ethical dilemmas and talk about those because I think…

00:05:48 Tim

We hear, we feel, we see these things. And I think that then influences the discussions that we have or wanting to have the discussions and that sometimes blinds us to the work of focusing on the language that we should.

00:06:04 Tim

As interpreters, we know this, we understand these things.

00:06:08 Tim

How are our clients viewing this?

00:06:12 Tim

Do they look at it as a social ethical interaction or are they thinking “language only”.

00:06:18 Tim

And what do they want us to think?

00:06:21 Tim

I think that would help us understand that maybe we need to focus more here or focus more here determined by  what the clients are believing.

00:06:31 Isabelle

I fully agree.

00:06:34 Isabelle

But these are not conversations like you and I can have between us.

00:06:38 Tim

Exactly.

00:06:40 Isabelle

And it's not something I included in my PhD research because I am a hearing interpreter.

00:06:47 Isabelle

I did touch on it in my post doc where I actually interviewed deaf people asking about more or less like what would their ideal world be, and if that in the ideal world there still would be sign language interpreters.

00:07:02 Isabelle

Lo and behold, no, there would not, of course. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:07:06 Isabelle

So, there you do get some of these understandings of, like how they see the role of the interpreter, but also the expectations.

00:07:13 Isabelle

But that being said, Tim, it's...

00:07:17 Isabelle

…a context of context conversation. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:07:22 Isabelle

And honestly, I hate myself for having to say this, and I remember myself being like a young interpreter my first five years.

00:07:32 Isabelle

I was just like, “It’s just interpreting.”

00:07:35 Isabelle

“That's your job.”

00:07:36 Isabelle

“You interpret”, right?

00:07:38 Isabelle

And I remember, like more seasoned interpreters, say like, “Nah, it depends on the context. It depends on the person.”

00:07:47 Isabelle

And it was an answer that gave me so much frustration. [Tim lightly chuckles]

00:07:51 Isabelle

Because I wanted guidelines. [Tim: Mm-hmm] I wanted to know this is right and this is wrong.

00:07:56 Isabelle

If you do this, it's great. If you do this, ehm, not good.

00:08:00 Isabelle

But that answer, just doesn't exist because we do work with people. [laughs] [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:08:07 Isabelle

And even that one same person will demand other things in another context. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:08:13 Isabelle

And it's the most important asset of an interpreter to be able to adapt to that.

00:08:23 Isabelle

And to be open minded and not have your preconceived ideas of this is how I interpret. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:08:30 Isabelle

You interpret within a context, within a situation, within what is expected within that situation by all participants, and yes, you have your own standards, and you have to have them right? [Tim: Mm-hmm] We’re not machines.

00:08:49 Isabelle

We have our own standards.

00:08:50 Isabelle

We know how we work best.

00:08:53 Isabelle

But you also have to be able to communicate that, and I feel there's still a lot of work to be done on…

00:09:00 Isabelle

Empowering interpreters to be able to talk about their work effectively and in a way that it can be understood by all people you're interpreting for whether they are deaf people hearing people.

00:09:16 Isabelle

Being able to explain this is my job.

00:09:21 Isabelle

And not like the big picture…

00:09:22 Isabelle

I'm going back to the micro level of “I work with language.” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:09:28 Isabelle

And within language I make decisions and only like for some interpreters to be able to own up to that. [Tim: Mmm]

00:09:37 Isabelle

Accept that, “Yeah, I make decisions.”

00:09:40 Isabelle

It’s hard. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:09:42 Isabelle

But a lot of us, we say, “I just interpret” which is like the worst sentence the interpreter can say. [both slightly chuckle]

00:09:50 Isabelle

“I just interpret.” No, you don't.

00:09:52 Isabelle

Nobody just interprets.

00:09:54 Isabelle

And then it's having that conversation with the people you're interpreting for. Are you comfortable with me making these decisions, or can you give me some guidelines on how you want me to make these decisions? [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:10:09 Isabelle

And these are conversations you have to have, and I think to go back to actually your original question… By having these conversations we're going to empower the people we work with to tell us what they want. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:10:24 Isabelle

But as long as we are unable to talk about our work and what we actually do in clear, transparent language, we're unable to have these conversations.

00:10:36 Tim

Yeah.

00:10:37 Isabelle

And I think that's also why it's been easier to have these conversations about actions and ethical situations and what should I do.

00:10:48 Isabelle

Because those are easier to grab. These are easier to yeah, you have a scenario right or wrong, but when it comes to language and these decisions you make, it's a lot more “sticky” if you want. [Tim chuckles]

00:11:02 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

00:11:05 Tim

It's interesting because we do a lot of training of new interpreters with mock or pretend situations about ethical decisions.

00:11:14 Tim

What would you do now?

00:11:15 Tim

What would you do th…?

00:11:16 Tim

And it's out of the real context out of the real discourse that's going on, the dynamics of that situation and…

00:11:27 Tim

Yes, we're training maybe some skills for them to problem solve and that's, that's really the, the goal of those situations rather than to give them the answers.

00:11:38 Tim

Unfortunately, many times the students don't have the experience I think enough to understand that's the goal.

00:11:44 Tim

They think these are the answers because like you said, we want the guidelines when we begin.

00:11:49 Isabelle

Yeah, I, I agree.

00:11:51 Isabelle

And I think also like having gone through those role plays and those ethical dilemmas...

00:11:57 Isabelle

And even after, like, I was graduated and I was working for a couple of years, there would be a workshop on it, you know, ethical... And I would go to these workshops, and I always felt quite uncomfortable.

00:12:11 Isabelle

'Cause [Tim: Mmm] there seemed to be an assumption that there is a right and wrong.

00:12:17 Isabelle

And not a lot of, yeah, margin for nuance and for understanding how to approach something and also in those workshops, a complete lack of the deaf perspective. [both chuckle]

00:12:30 Isabelle

Again, it was interpreters discussing with each other what an interpreter should do, and I'm like, [Tim: Mm-hmm] but what does the deaf person in that situation want, right? [Tim: yeah]

00:12:39 Isabelle

Yeah. Again, like opening up those conversations are very important.

00:12:43 Isabelle

That being said, it's so interesting 'cause I know, umm.

00:12:47 Isabelle

I think it was Robyn Dean who in the 90s did this research on ethical decision making and came out with the fact that interpreters at a time really still had this conduit [French pronunciation] of I don't interfere.

00:13:04 Isabelle

I'm actually not even a part of this interaction.

00:13:08 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:13:09 Isabelle

I just transfer the language or the message and that's it.

00:13:14 Isabelle

And she repeated that research not too long ago, I think, in 2023 and still more than 90% of the interpreters went for this very mechanical, conduit decisions, which really baffled my mind.

00:13:33 Isabelle

Because I think from a theoretical research perspective, we've moved on from that idea. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:13:38 Isabelle

But it seems it has not yet trickled down to the practitioners, or maybe education or something? [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:13:45 Isabelle

So yeah, I put it in my, in my PhD because it, it really surprised me that it was still the same. [Tim: Mmm]

00:13:52 Isabelle

So yeah, still a lot of work to do on that front.

00:13:56 Tim

[chuckling] And here we thought we were moving forward.

00:13:59 Isabelle

We are.

00:13:59 Isabelle

We are moving forward, but it is, umm.

00:14:03 Isabelle

I think it's a history of our profession, [Tim: yeah] where we’ve come from. And I try and like when I train students or when I do workshops or something I like to, to talk about the human professional.

00:14:17 Isabelle

'cause I feel with like, new or early career interpreters there's always that sense of, like, “Where are my boundaries?” [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:14:27 Isabelle

“When it's too professional? What is too human?”

00:14:29 Isabelle

I'm like, as an interpreter, you, you are a professional, but you are a human.

00:14:35 Isabelle

And you want to be able to be allowed to be that human professional, right?

00:14:41 Isabelle

In which I mean, like you have your professional standards. You have your job to do.

00:14:46 Isabelle

And sometimes you have to stand firm on something so you can do your job. [Tim: hmm]

00:14:51 Isabelle

But you're also human, so you have empathy. You have understanding, and you know there is flexibility there that will still allow you to do your job.

00:15:00 Isabelle

But there is, there is limits to that, because sometimes we might be pulled in situations where you go like actually here in this situation, if this is expected of me, I cannot do my job, which is interpreting. [Tim: yeah]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:15:14 Tim

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00:15:17

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00:15:19 Tim

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00:15:34 Tim

Thank you. Let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:15:38 Tim

So, have you also done interpreting with spoken language?

00:15:42 Isabelle

Yeah, I have.

00:15:44 Tim

OK. And how is that different than sign language interpreting?

00:15:47 Tim

Do you see or feel a difference in those situations?

00:15:51 Isabelle

Yeah. So obviously within the Master in Interpreting, I had to. [Tim: Mm-hmm] It would have been Dutch and English. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:15:57 Isabelle

Now, umm, so my second language is French.

00:16:01 Isabelle

My grandmother was from France and it's like the language we use in Belgium anyways, so I would also do occasionally some interpreting between Dutch and French.

00:16:12 Isabelle

The biggest difference, obviously, is the consecutive. [both laughing]

00:16:16 Isabelle

I don't know where you can work simultaneously in the spoken language, so it really helped me in solidifying my note-taking skills, my like short-term memory was challenged more.

00:16:34 Isabelle

But it also allowed me to, to become a better listener. [Tim: hmm]

00:16:39 Isabelle

So, I do think having that more foundational approach to consecutive interpreting has had immense benefits in my simultaneous interpreting, which would be signed language interpreting.

00:16:51 Isabelle

So, I've never done simultaneous…

00:16:53 Isabelle

Oh! That's not true.

00:16:54 Isabelle

I've done simultaneous interpreting English and, and, uh, Dutch in the Parliament, where you have the booths [Tim: Mm-hmm] and you have all the equipment where you can do it.

00:17:04 Isabelle

But I think that's been a huge advantage. And yeah, has made me a better… because I already was a sign language interpreter when I did my master’s.

00:17:13 Isabelle

But I think having that foundation made me a better sign language interpreter.

00:17:18 Isabelle

It has also influenced me in really standing firm in interpreting education that you have to start from consecutive. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:17:25 Isabelle

And you cannot just jump into simultaneous, which was how I was taught sign language interpreting. [Tim: oooh] Like, learn the language and like the first thing you did in interpreting was simultaneous.

00:17:37 Isabelle

But then I became a teacher in that program.

00:17:39 Isabelle

[using a higher pitch voice of frustration] I think we need to start with consecutive a little bit. [Tim chuckles]

00:17:42 Isabelle

Which… It does help a lot I think, and also again when you go back to Gile and his three Efforts, like, the first one is listening, but you need to be able to listen in an analytical way. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:17:58 Isabelle

And I think consecutive does, does help for that, yeah.

00:18:02 Tim

Yeah, some people even need to start, and I would say most people need to start at translation.

00:18:07 Isabelle

That's where I started.

00:18:08 Tim

Yeah. [Isabelle: yeah]

00:18:10 Tim

In sign language interpreting, we tend to have more of a personal connection because we're constantly having eye contact.

00:18:18 Tim

It's that human connection. Does that feeling “translate” into spoken language interpreting?

00:18:25 Isabelle

I really love this question, and I love having the opportunity to maybe, like, debunk some myths. [chuckling] Because I feel like in sign language interpreting…

00:18:34 Isabelle

We're kind of like seeing ourselves as unique in the relationship we have with mostly the deaf people we interpret for, like we almost don't really think a lot about hearing people we interpret for. [lightly chuckles]

00:18:47 Isabelle

Which I think is because we tend as sign language interpreters think of spoken language interpreting as conference interpreting. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:18:57 Isabelle

We think AIIC. We think Parliament. We think high stake.

00:19:04 Isabelle

We forget about all the community interpreting that's happening.

00:19:09 Isabelle

So, if you are a spoken language interpreter, English/Turkish, English/Kurdish, English/any African language, trust me that human connection is there.

00:19:21 Isabelle

You have that eye contact.

00:19:24 Isabelle

Mostly, even I would say is probably bigger for community interpreting spoken languages than for some signed languages because they will be of that community. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:19:39 Isabelle

A Dutch/Turkish interpreter is Turkish. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:19:43 Isabelle

Right.

00:19:44 Tim

Yeah.

00:19:45 Isabelle

The sign language interpreter is not Deaf.

00:19:47 Isabelle

They can be CODA, which brings them in like closer proximity. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:19:53 Isabelle

But imagine actually being of that culture, mostly in those context. Probably you've been migrant yourself while you're interpreting for a person who maybe has experienced the same things you have experienced. So different than what the hearing signed language interpreter can ever bring to the table. [Tim: yeah]

00:20:13 Isabelle

So, I, I always try to make people a little bit more aware of that. Like, ehmmm, it's not that different and actually we have probably a little bit more distance.

00:20:24 Isabelle

And those feelings of frustration, experiencing or witnessing oppression, that will be very much the case for spoken language community interpreters as well. That feeling of like helplessness sometimes, not having power to do anything, to see injustice in front of your eyes.

00:20:46 Isabelle

I think, they, they struggle with that as well, but we tend to think of spoken language interpreters as... So, for me, bringing it back to your question, I went from Dutch to English. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:20:59 Isabelle

But there were no instances where I was interpreting in these situations which Pöchhacker, he calls, like when there is umm…

00:21:08 Isabelle

Bilateral, kind of relationship.

00:21:11 Isabelle

So, you have somebody in power and somebody who's not in power. In my situations, English from Dutch, most people have equal status and equal power.

00:21:20 Isabelle

So, I would be confronted with that much more in my sign language interpreting where I would know the people personally.

00:21:29 Isabelle

Where there might be these extra layers of power imbalance and also through education obviously like in interpreting training program you learn about, umm, Deaf culture, the history, oppression, audism and those things.

00:21:46 Isabelle

Those are not things I learned about in my spoken language interpreting.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:21:55 Tim

So, which do you enjoy most out of your passions?

00:21:58 Tim

Research or interpreting and why?

00:22:02 Isabelle

Yeah.

00:22:05 Isabelle

It's a great question and I think I'm, I'm so privileged to be able to do both. And to be honest, I would probably not want to do one of them solely [Tim: Mm-hmm] and only two, yeah. [chuckles] [Tim: wow]

00:22:21 Isabelle

I think being able to combine, my skills, my curiosity, my motivation, my passion in the discipline where I can be creative, where I can think about things where I can form my own opinions, where I can connect the dots, where I can be analytical and come to conclusions and things in research combined with a profession where I can work with other people's ideas [Tim: Mm-hmm] is perfect.

00:22:56 Isabelle

If I would only be interpreting, that would not work for me.

00:23:00 Isabelle

And it's interesting because maybe it has to do with age, but I hear, like, more and more interpreters in my kind of environment who say the same.

00:23:11 Isabelle

We're like, actually need something else besides interpreting [Tim: Mmm] to keep my brain active.

00:23:18 Isabelle

…to make me feel like I'm a person who can have thoughts and ideas and express them.

00:23:25 Isabelle

So, I think that the whole idea of, well, you're interpreting, you're not giving your own opinion, which is true, we don't.

00:23:31 Isabelle

We shouldn't. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:23:32 Isabelle

But it also means you have to deal with other people's ideas the whole time.

00:23:38 Isabelle

And pass these on and they pass through you, which is very different than being in a profession where, like, “Well, here I can do my thing. And I can see things my way, and they can come to conclusions my way.”

00:23:54 Isabelle

So, I think being able to do both and being able to apply both as well, like I can apply my research in my interpreting and my, obviously I,… my interpreting in my research [both chuckling] is just an amazing cocktail.

00:24:08 Isabelle

It works for me.

00:24:10 Isabelle

And when I'm not interpreting like now, I'm, I'm not interpreting because I'm in Ireland, and even though I do know Irish Sign language a little bit, it's definitely not up to standards to be interpreting.

00:24:22 Isabelle

So, I'm not, I miss it. [Tim: Mmm]

00:24:25 Isabelle

I miss it.

00:24:25 Isabelle

I'm, I’m teaching interpreting here and I do some interpreting with students and… I’m like Oh my God...

00:24:31 Tim

Yeah.

00:24:31 Isabelle

[‘cause] I miss it so much.

00:24:34 Isabelle

But that being said, I would not be able to do only interpreting and not, for instance, engaging in research or teaching, but then teaching more in the sense of workshops. Like, I love giving workshops for experienced interpreters. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:24:52 Isabelle

That’s really, like, I get so much, umm…

00:24:55 Isabelle

How do you say that in English?

00:24:57 Isabelle

I know the word in Dutch.

00:24:58 Isabelle

Vervulling, which means… fulfillment!

00:25:02 Tim

Fulfillment. Yeah.

00:25:03 Isabelle

Fulfillment. Much more than like teaching students [Tim chuckles] who are not sure yet where they're going to go with their life. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:25:10 Isabelle

Yeah. So I, I really love giving workshop and get a lot, like it gives me a lot as well. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:25:19 Isabelle

To be able to engage with experienced interpreters and professionals. [Tim: yeah] The combination is just amazing.

00:25:26 Isabelle

I couldn't say I love one more than the other. [Tim: Yeah]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:25:34 Tim

What was your highlight in the research field?

00:25:38 Tim

What are you most proud of?

00:25:40

Hmm.

00:25:42 Isabelle

That's a good question.

00:25:45 Isabelle

I think after doing the PhD, all the workshops I've been giving about what I, like about the results of my PhD. [Tim: Mm-hmm] And when I give these workshops…

00:25:58 Isabelle

…like, to different sign language interpreters in different continents even, how it resonates with them.

00:26:06 Isabelle

But just like even saying it now I get goose bumps. [both laughing]

00:26:10 Isabelle

It's, it's just… and I, I promise you every researcher will, will kind of understand this, like…

00:26:16 Isabelle

Because you're in your bubble and you think [Tim: Mmm] like, “Yeah, this is a good idea.”

00:26:21 Isabelle

“We should research this. This is really important.”

00:26:23 Isabelle

But really, it's you thinking this is really important, right?

00:26:26 Tim

Right.

00:26:27 Isabelle

But then seeing that actually it resonates with people and people like, “Oh my God, yeah.” And then they come back to you and say, like, “I used it and it worked. And I feel so much better. And I feel empowered. And I feel…” I'm like, yes, this is the best. [Tim: Mm-hmm]

00:26:42 Isabelle

So, every practicing interpreter who I have supported even a little bit in their development, that's the best achievement. [Tim: yeah]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:27:00 Tim

And I think this conversation was quite an achievement.

00:27:04 Tim

So many topics were tossed about within this short conversation when I first started thinking about linguistics, I always thought, It's all technical, language, words, parts of words, quite boring things to me, if that's all we talked about. But it's because I did not understand fully what they meant by these terms, by these perspectives.

00:27:30 Tim

For me, communication is key.

00:27:33 Tim

Being a good communicator is more important than the language because communication is the use of language.

00:27:41 Tim

It's the discourse.

00:27:42 Tim

It’s the conversation.

00:27:43 Tim

It's how each communicator in the situation is taking turns, is understanding, is listening, and that is a part of linguistics.

00:27:54 Tim

Isabelle has given me that perspective to realize that part of linguistics is exactly what I'm talking about.

00:28:01 Tim

But that's what it's all about. Having a conversation, understanding what the other person is saying, listening to what they say so that we can talk more effectively about what we actually mean.

00:28:12 Tim

Because it may be the same meaning and intent that the other person has.

00:28:19 Tim

As interpreters, we need to talk more effectively, very effective about what we do, not only to each other, but to those of our clients, the ones that we serve.

00:28:28 Tim

The more terms and perspectives that we can see and understand and can actually explain, the better it is for us and everyone else.

00:28:39 Tim

Our profession is uplifted by this ongoing education that we have through conversations with each other.

00:28:46 Tim

And it's through those conversations we learned that “I'm just interpreting” is putting us down.

00:28:53 Tim

It's condescending what we do, we all know that interpreting is much more than just an easy activity.

00:29:00 Tim

It is indepth.

00:29:01 Tim

It is very hard to explain if we have not thought about it and talked about it.

00:29:07 Tim

But that conversation starts with us, but becomes fuller, more holistic when we involve the communities we serve.

00:29:15 Tim

It's not just our conversation.

00:29:16 Tim

I would also like to end with this one myth about spoken language interpreters not having that connection to the Community as much as we have. As sign language interpreters, we understand and feel the needs of the minority that we're serving.

00:29:34 Tim

Hearing interpreters, whether we're CODAS or non-CODAS, heritage signers or not, we are not part of the community.

00:29:42 Tim

We are not a full member but spoken language interpreters…

00:29:46 Tim

They may be from that exact community that they're interpreting for, so they have a better seat in the conversation than we do. And I'll leave you with this note:

00:29:57 Tim

That perspective, that short conversation we had helps us understand why deaf interpreters are so important for our profession.

00:30:09 Tim

So, thank you for having this conversation with us.

00:30:12 Tim

Let's keep it going.

00:30:13 Tim

Click on the links in the show notes and join the community, the newsletter, the conversation, and most of all, keep calm.

00:30:22 Tim

Keep interpreting.

00:30:24 Tim

I'll see you next week.

00:30:26

Take care now.

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