IW 129: InterpreComedy: Jason and the Jargonauts

"You keep using that word. I don't think you know what that means."

Sometimes we know so much about something that we don't know how to stop talking about it. Today we take a funny look at how sign language interpreters sometimes try to explain our profession in too much detail. We like our jargon, our terminology, or linguistics.

There is a time and place for such talk and we need to remember that.

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Transcript

IW 129: InterpreComedy: Jason and the Jargonauts

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quotes of the day, the first by John C Maxwell, American author and Pastor. “Educators take something simple and make it complicated. Communicators take something complicated and make it simple.” And the second quote by George Orwell English novelist.

00:00:55 Tim

“Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word, if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.”

00:01:05 Tim

As interpreters, we think of ourselves as communicators. The better the communicator, the better the interpreter can be. If we understand how people communicate, we will understand how people are trying to communicate. But sometimes in our role as interpreter, we try to explain what it is we do when we're questioned by different clients.

00:01:29 Tim

And in our profession, just like every profession we have, jargon.

00:01:35 Tim

Terminology. Speaking within our profession about certain terms that mean something to us, and may mean something different to other people outside our profession. What does that really mean? Why do we use this terminology? Some of the terminology we've thrown away, but some of them we keep. Some of them, we still use just because of simplicity for quick understanding and in our own discussion groups, in our teaming.

00:02:05 Tim

But here are some examples. I think in this episode as to why we really try to not use this terminology or should try not to use these phrases, terms from our profession while we're working. Working especially with those who don't know much about our profession, or are not familiar with the way we discuss what we do.

00:02:30 Tim

You how much terminology do you use in your everyday work? Do you throw it out there whenever you need to? Because it's quicker and easier, concise way of describing what we do to potential clients or participants in a situation. How do we get around that? Hmm. Let's talk about all that today.

00:02:50 Tim

Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:02:58 Tim

Ohh hello. Come on in.

00:02:59 "Jason"

Oh hello, my name is Jason and I'm the interpreter for today.

00:03:04 Tim

Are you the translator you mean? Wait. What you're… are you the… I, I ordered the translator for this appointment today, which is in about 20 minutes. You're Jason, right? Are you the translator?

00:03:16 "Jason"

Yes. Well, actually, let me explain. There is a difference, and I understand that that people use the two words interchangeably quite a lot.

00:03:24 "Jason"

Translator or interpreter but, and they kind of do the same thing. Except you really don't want a translator here. A translator would take much longer and…

00:03:37 Tim

So, wait a minute. This is only an hour appointment. Are you saying that it's too long for you or?

00:03:43 "Jason"

No, no, no, no, I mean.

00:03:45 "Jason"

I'm, I'm an interpreter, which means I will be working simultaneously or sometimes consecutively for your conversation in this discourse...

00:03:53 Tim

Wait, what? No. OK, hang on. I don't need you consecutive days or weeks. I, I need you here now. Only for this one hour. And it is not a course. This, this is just an appointment, just an appointment with the client. And I need you to translate everything that I'm saying so that he understands the information I'm giving him, because this is fairly important.

00:04:15 "Jason"

Oh yes, I understand that. Well, OK, that's a little misunderstanding. I think you're, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying about, um…

00:04:23 "Jason"

However, so yes, I will be here to interpret your conversation with him. And by the way, he is your client and I will be interpreting for him and for you so that you can understand. So, you will be speaking and then I will interpret that message to him, and he will sign...

00:04:44 Tim

No, no, no, no, no. He's not signing anything today.

00:04:46 Tim

He's only going to be getting the information so he can make a decision on whether or not to do…

00:04:52 "Jason"

No, you misunderstand. I understand. No, I was using sign as a in a different way. You see it's sign language and so he's going to be using his hands and his body, of course. And his facial expressions to indicate what he's saying and, and, and that's a signed language. It's just a different mode of, of language.

00:05:13 Tim

OK, let me get this straight. You will make sure that he understands what I'm telling him, right?

00:05:20 "Jason"

Yes. Well, to a certain degree, I will be giving him your message and with your intentions and your goals and involved in that so that he will get that message and perhaps, you know, mediating the cultural differences and so forth.

00:05:34 Tim

No, no, no. Wait, wait. OK. OK. So you will. He will understand what I'm doing then, right?

00:05:38 "Jason"

Well, actually I don't know if you'll understand or not, but I will give him your message if he understands or not. He will let you know, I'm sure, or you can ask even.

00:05:48 Tim

So, you're saying that you can't translate the information in a way that he'll understand? I, I don't understand. He needs to understand.

00:05:56 "Jason"

I, I, I, I see what you're saying and I hear you. Sometimes people don't understand each other when they're talking to each other.

00:06:05 Tim

Yeah, I, [clears his throat-concealing sarcasm] I get that feeling.

00:06:08 "Jason"

I mean, he needs the information from you and I will be giving that to him in a way that is appropriate to his culture, his…

00:06:18 Tim

No, wait. We are both Americans, so the culture is the same. I'm an American. He's an American. I don't need you to help with the cultural differences.

00:06:26 “Jason”

Oh, no, no, no, no. See, the difference is you are hearing.

00:06:30 Tim

And yes, I hear you. And I understand what you're saying. I can hear you. I'm listening.

00:06:36 "Jason"

No, I mean, culturally, the hearing community is…

00:06:41 Tim

What?! The community is not going to be involved in this at all. We're not broadcasting this. It is… It will only be here, he and I having a conversation…

00:06:51 "Jason"

Yes, I understand. Well, OK. [slightly chuckles nervously]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:07:00 Tim

There are so many terms we use as interpreters every time we go out. When we talk about interpreting, we get hung up on some of those terms. Don't we? Interpreter versus translator, consecutively, simultaneously, and even whisper interpreting.

00:07:18 Tim

And then we also get stuck using academic terminology.

00:07:24 Tim

Terminology from linguistics from translatology, from this theory or that theory? Or we throw out the names of theories, Demand Control, Role Space, helper, ally, advocate.

00:07:40 Tim

When we start to explain in detail about how our work works, it can become confusing.

00:07:50 Tim

I think about other professions, and when I encounter them, I think how often do they explain to me exactly what they're doing and why and why it's called a certain way? And if they throw out terminology to me that I need to know or don't need to know.

00:08:08 Tim

Just throwing out the term, Hearing, is usually confusing to people who are Hearing.

00:08:16 Tim

Because they don't see the significance, they don't understand the nuance in the meaning that we are using for that. They don't understand how Hearing can have a culture. Deaf can have a culture. That doesn't usually make sense unless you have background information background knowledge of what that entails.

00:08:39 Tim

Many people do not even understand that language and culture are intertwined, that they influence one another. They develop together, they don't understand that the conversation itself is changing how language is used and how meaning is being processed.

00:08:57 Tim

None of that matters to them, so the more we go into using terminology using our viewpoint on our work in conversations with our clients, hearing and Deaf, usually they don't need to know. Usually, it doesn't help the situation.

00:09:18 Tim

We need to think is this important to the situation, to create an atmosphere where no harm is being done, that my interpretation will be better for it if I discuss all of these points, will their goals be met if I explain to them all of these nuances?

00:09:39 Tim

I think we need to think deeper, longer and harder about how we convey these concepts in a simple, quick way, just enough that we are polite, that we are respectful of their time, that we can show we are professionals.

00:09:59 Tim

No, I take that back. We don't need to show that we are professionals. Most people will expect that we are. That we are the interpreter, the translator, and we're there to do a job.

00:10:12 Tim

Therefore, we are the professionals in that case.

00:10:16 Tim

When we have to explain that we're professional, the perception is we might be trying to prove it too much.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

Let me say this clearly and simply in easy words, click on the link in the show notes to Buy Me A Coffee, because that helps me pay for things to do the podcast. Thank you for your support.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:10:43 Tim

Listen, I really need to get some things prepared. Get these printouts ready for the appointment. We've got about 10 minutes. Well, about 15 minutes before he gets here. Please have a seat. And when he gets here, then we can start. OK?

00:10:56 "Jason"

Yes, of course, no problem whatsoever. I will sit over here quietly. You do what you need to get done.

00:11:02 "Jason"

I'm not here to interfere and like I cannot give any advice. Of course I will. I will not.

00:11:07 Tim

Ummmm. What? Wait, what? What was that you said? You're not going to give me any advice. You mean you're not going to help me understand what he means when he's here? Or if he asks questions?

00:11:18 "Jason"

Well, of course. No. What I mean is we have a code that…

00:11:22 Tim

No, I understand you have a code. Then you're going to use those coded hand signals and…

00:11:27 "Jason"

No, uh, a code of ethics.

00:11:30 "Jason"

You see, I'm a professional. I have a degree in interpreting. And as a professional we have a code of ethics that we have to follow and part of that is that we have to be impartial. We're neutral in this situation and that we won't give any advice to you or to him on how to make a decision or anything like that.

00:11:51 Tim

OK, I knew this situation was going to be different. Having a translator and a hearing-impaired client, but I did not anticipate, well, …you.

00:12:00 "Jason"

Ohh, I see. Yes. Well, first of all, let me make just a, a little suggestion. We don't use hearing-impaired anymore. The deaf community prefers to be called Deaf or hard of hearing, not hearing-impaired.

00:12:16 Tim

Well, I know you're a professional, but we have an HR department here. Human resources, which is quite educated in how to handle the different populations that we have to work with. And they recommend that it's hearing impaired, or hearing challenged.

00:12:32 "Jason"

I understand. I'm just here to advise you that it is…

00:12:36 Tim

I thought you weren't supposed to give me advice?

00:12:37 "Jason"

Ohh no no no. I'm not advising you in, in that capacity. I'm just advocating for the Deaf. They need to have a voice and their voice is telling…

00:12:48 Tim

Wait a minute. Now you're saying that the deaf person will be speaking for themselves.

00:12:52 "Jason"

No, I mean they will have a voice in such matters. In other words, they have a right to say…

00:12:59 Tim

So, they can speak. This, this client will be able to speak and say what he wants.

00:13:04 "Jason"

No, you're misunderstanding. It... He has the right… How can I say this? His voice matters. His opinion there, that that may make more sense to you.

00:13:13 Tim

Yes, I do understand the word opinion. Please go on.

00:13:16 "Jason"

His opinion about himself, his own identity. They just happen to say Deaf with a capital D because it's their identity.

00:13:26 Tim

Uh-huh. OK. Thank you. Yeah. [sounding exasperated]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:13:34 Tim

This is another major reason we shouldn't be explaining things to people when they didn't ask for an explanation. We need to respect their time just as much as we need to respect their goals, their intentions, their dialogue, their conversation.

00:13:52 Tim

When we bring up explanations too much or we try to give advice on how to be in this situation, how to use us as interpreters, or how to interact with the Deaf, we can come across as condescending or defensive about our own expertise.

00:14:16 Tim

It is not a good soft skill when you're acting this way. We need to only answer what has been asked of us. Only give advice like this when asked or when it's appropriate to accommodate the situation in a way that will create a better interpretation and a better result for everyone.

00:14:43 Tim

One thing that is clear is we shouldn't bring up our code of ethics unless it's absolutely necessary. Bringing up the code of ethics can do more harm than good. Just think about it in our own group as interpreters. When we talk about the code of ethics, or we talk about an ethical dilemma, or a moral dilemma, we can talk for hours.

00:15:04 Tim

And there are so many different viewpoints on it that we have continued to throw ethics under the bus, pick it back up, put it through the laundry, clean it off, start all over, and we keep doing it over and over again. Why would we give that to someone who's not in the profession to try to wrap their minds around it?

00:15:28 Tim

We don't have to go into detail. We don't have to tell them that we have a professional code of ethics and therefore we must follow blah blah blah blah.

00:15:37 Tim

Why say all that?

00:15:39 Tim

It's kind of like when someone in a conversation tells you, “Well, honestly. Blah blah blah blah.”

00:15:46 Tim

Sometimes people can think, “Wait a minute. You mean now you're being honest. You mean before this you weren't quite so honest.” It's an odd thing to say.

00:15:57 Tim

“If I'm being completely honest.” “Ohh, so before you were not completely honest, only about 50 percent, 70%? What can I be guaranteed that you were not lying to me?” Codes of ethics are great, but we don't need to have everyone discussing it with us.

00:16:18 Tim

Again, respect their time. Understand that we do professional work.

00:16:25 Tim

That's why they hire us.

00:16:28 Tim

We come dressed professionally, looking good in our dark clothes and our contrasting colors. Very fashionable, very chic. But when we try to prove to them that we are professional by regaling them with a beautiful story about ethics, telling the stories the anecdotes of everything that's happened to us ethically, to give them an example of our confidentiality, our impartiality, or heaven forbid, our neutrality. Then we have to start explaining what those mean. Uuff. Usually, we don't have the time… Ever.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:17:10 Tim

Talking too much, explaining too much can sometimes irritate others, especially when we are perceived as an outsider. We are there to do a job, to interpret.

00:17:27 Tim

We are not there to be their friends, we are not there to be their advocate. We are there to be the interpreter, the professional of interpreting.

00:17:38 Tim

When we get caught up in terminology, it sometimes goes in circles so that we're explaining the terms and then going back to what our point was going back again to the terms. Going back to the explanation, which leads to another explanation, because we sometimes use other terms to explain the first terms.

00:18:00 Tim

And it just keeps going deeper and deeper until we never find the end of that conversation.

00:18:09 Tim

Which means we've left more questions, more perceptions that we didn't actually mean to give. We thought we were trying to explain something simply, but we got stuck in a whirlwind of words…

00:18:26 Tim

…a twisting tornado of terminology…

00:18:30 Tim

OK, I'll stop.

00:18:31 Tim

…a confusing chaotic conversation…

00:18:34 Tim

OK, I lied.

00:18:306Tim

…about our field of sign language interpreting.

00:18:40 Tim

We need to remember that if you are an expert, if we are an expert, then it means we can explain something in simple terms, in simple words.

00:18:52 Tim

If we really know something inside and out, upside down, diagonally, every which way, we know this backwards and forwards, we know what we do because we are the expert. That means we should be able to explain it in simple words in simple ways clearly, not only in academic terminology. I know you educators out there know this.

00:19:19 Tim

But we also need to teach our students how to do this. We need to teach each other. We need to talk about it in simple terms more often. Learn that soft skill of being able to express ourselves quickly, and simply, and clearly, without confusing or mesmerizing our clients..

00:19:42 Tim

I think I've talked long enough. It's just going back in the loop, isn't it? So let me take my own advice and stop talking about it.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:19:55 "Jason"

If you cancel now, I would still have to get paid for this.

00:19:59 Tim

You get paid for this? Really? This is what you get paid for? I think I might have something to voice as well.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:20:12 Tim

I had to stop that. It can go on forever about how we speak about the profession, how we use our own jargon to confuse ourselves and to confuse others. As an interpreter, I have to truly understand what someone is talking about, why they're saying something.

00:20:29 Tim

And how they mean what they say. It's hard enough to understand presenters, speakers, doctors and clients of all kinds without trying to understand, navigate what my own colleagues are talking about.

00:20:44 Tim

We have such jargon and it's beautiful. It's wonderful way… a coded message for us to understand each other and be able to concisely and quickly talk about what we're doing or what we need. And that's a good thing. But we need to drop it sometimes, and we need to stop squibbling, squabbling, arguing over minutiae.

00:21:08 Tim

Stop arguing over jargon. Stop saying, “Well, that's not appropriate” as long as we understand each other. We need to improve the profession. So yes, we need to be appropriate. But we need to not attack each other for the jargon that we're using.

00:21:26 Tim

We just need to be in clear communication with each other. The clearer we are, the more we understand each other. The more we can improve what we do, and we really need to think about those poor hearing people who don't know sign language or the deaf community or the deaf culture or the interpreter culture.

00:21:47 Tim

They usually have good intentions when they're talking about what's about to happen in the interpreting assignment, they probably didn't ask us for a lecture about what terms are appropriate, what terms are not and many times the deaf clients don't care either.

00:22:06 Tim

Now they may, and if they do, that's appropriate. That's the time for us to interpret what they want to get across. I think this kind of goes with don't overlap advocacy with interpreting. The role of advocate most often cannot be in a dual relationship with the interpreter role at the same time.

00:22:29 Tim

There are the appropriate moments, and those ethical dilemmas, or those moral dilemmas that pop up that are rare when we have to advocate during an assignment. But overall, empower the others. We have enough power as the interpreter already.

00:22:47 Tim

Right. Uff, from comedy to seriousness, well, if you can call that comedy, I don't know.

00:22:55 Tim

So, until next time, keep calm, keep jargon-free interpreting. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:23:40]