IW 123: Interview Alex Laferriere Part 3: The Interpreter Game-You Don't Always Have to Get It Right

Get it right!... Or Don't.
Interpreter's focus too much on getting it "right".

Alex Laferriere and I discuss geeky-gamer stuff, a tiny bit, but we connect that passion with our passion for signed languages, the Deaf and interpreting communities.

Alex's perspective as a CODA and non-interpreter, gives us a new lens to self-reflect on our perceptions of our own sign language interpreting profession.

Here is Alex's ASL signing on his YouTube gaming episode: https://youtu.be/TA3qC98jm9o?si=gkFb5rHzHUZrRG0J&t=1533

LINKS mentioned:

• IW Community Discount until Dec 31, 11:59:59pm.
  • 10-50% OFF workshops, seminars. Earn CEUs, CPD, and professional development hours.
  • And much more.
• Sharon's new book! (Use promo code IWCurry for 10% Discount.)
  • Give a note to ask for a signed copy!

Transcript

IW 123: Interview Alex Laferriere Part 3: The Interpreter Game-You Don't Always Have to Get It Right

Support the Podcast!

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com.

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by Joyce Rochelle, author and poet.

00:00:42 Tim

“There is comfort even among strangers. When people find something they are equally passionate about.”

00:00:52 Tim

Today, we continue the interview with Alex Laferrere. The CODA, non sign language interpreter from the USA. Today we get into the hobby, my hobby, his hobby, our interests, our passion.

00:01:09 Tim

And the quote today reminds us that our passion for the profession spills over into our relationships, even with strangers, even with those who we are teaming with for the very first time.

00:01:24 Tim

We have that connection, we have that camaraderie, that understanding, the mutual goal for the work ahead, as well as understanding the humor that's behind our profession, how others perceive our profession and how we're connected in so many ways with the terminology, the process, and the daily life that is our profession.

00:01:48 Tim

With Alex today, he analyzes how we look at the profession by giving us his perspective about what interpreting means to him, what sign language means to him, what being a CODA means to him. All of those can give us a new lens to look at ourselves and to look at each other…

00:02:08 Tim

…and, and the passion we have for what we do and understand that it may not be exactly what we thought it was. This outside lens within the community looking at us, it can remind us that sometimes what we do we love, we have a passion for, and it isn't as serious as we think. So, let's seriously consider how serious this is. No, seriously.

00:02:36 Tim

Today you actually get a glimpse at my hobby, at my passion, my fun and games with Alex.

00:02:45 Tim

Even if you don't want to listen to us talking about our gaming, I encourage you to listen, hear the excitement in our voice and remind yourself what hobbies, what work, what topics excite you, in the same way. Catch those feelings and bring it to life, to your life, because that's what it's all about. Enjoy this last episode with Alex and me and everyone that shares our passions. Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:03:22 Tim

I have very few friends in the world who know a sign language and are gamers as well, and so I reached out… uhf, Why? How?... yeah.

00:03:33 Alex

So, Alex, why, how? [both laughing]

00:03:36 Tim

Exactly. So let me segue into that. Why? How did you get into gaming?

00:03:41 Tim

Why are you doing a YouTube channel and, and why do you put in aspects of ASL?

00:03:47 Alex

Yeah, Tim, this is what we're doing right here is, is one of those I never would have thought type of moments, but it's the perfect culmination of everything. And it's the representation of… I always have the saying, “Sometimes you gotta say something and let other people figure out the meaning”. And this is that whole, “sometimes just gotta do something and let other people figure out the meaning”. So [Tim laughing] yeah, it's…, it kind of ties it all together.

00:04:08 Alex

And what we’ve been talking about long form in terms of sign language for humanity and raising the aspect of understanding, and enjoyment, and signed cinema, and let's get sign language in a bunch of different ways.

00:04:21 Alex

So, with the pandemic and with, you know, a resurgence back into enjoying games after being involved with policy and government and whatever, I wanted to bring more of my enlightenment to the things that I enjoyed in hearing worlds [Tim: mm-hmm] and never really had a sign language group.

00:04:40 Alex

And I have gone out and have various groups at home, not recorded to recorded remotely. And there's a whole CODA group that was, uh, forged for a while there via zoom and doing things remotely. But then really driving for an aspect of getting an in-person studio and returning back to forging friends, new friends, old friends around, an actual physical table, but still trying to hold on to the notion of things that are unique to me.

00:05:07 Alex

And be that deaf culture and sign language and seeding these adventures and tales that have aspects of this.

00:05:14 Alex

And as the current adventure is unfolding, those spoilers for you, Tim, there's this aspect of sign language in this fantasy mythological world that these hearing people predominantly are playing in but are still engaging and finding elements of. And ohh, this thing is also recorded and put out there. Let's see what happens. And Tim, you are the first, you know fish to bite the lure, [Tim chuckling] I guess in terms of knowing and appreciating both sides.

00:05:40 Alex

And I'm curious, will you or someone perhaps interpret that stuff for the rest of the audience in some way? What's what? What do you feel your role would be as an interpreter or a audience member? Because there isn't any interpretation, no text on screen, there's no voiceover. [Tim: mm-hmm] There's no, I mean, there's obviously comments on the YouTube video, and I've sort of am dabbling with the… let's see where this goes. Let's see how the community engages this stuff.

00:06:07 Alex

99% of the hearing world, “Uh, uh, what? The sign language, what does it mean?” I don't know. Maybe there's some people in there that are willing to put... “This is what the… This is what the- that was said in that world.” But it's out of game. It's non-Canon. But the audience could be aware of it. [Tim: mm-hmm] I'm just playing with elements that I'm curious to see where they go. [Tim: yeah]

00:06:27 Alex

And I'm from, at the table with folks that are engaging the game live and you asked me off mic, you know, “How was it with these hearing people, you know, deer in the headlights, looking at sign language and... “Wow, that's…” and I think my response was that's sort of the the aspect of it is how are they going to respond to it. [Tim: mm-hmm] 

00:06:47 Alex

And I don't know if it was this moment, but there's other instances as well too, that it once it appears, I don't know if you've seen it, or if it's live yet, in which there is that (and thank you that you brought it up) awkward laughter. [Tim laughing] That you know, like, “Ah, he's doing, he's doing the thing. This is funny.”

00:07:02 Alex

And then it's still going and, “Ohh, I guess this is actually more real than some miming. He's doing a mime. Oh, no. This is actually trying to be a little bit more mature or sophisticated. [Tim: mm-hmm] And what are we to do with this? Does anyone know what's going on here? And it's been 2 minutes, 3 minutes. [Tim chuckling: yeah] And it's done now. And now, how do? Where do we go from here?” Well… [Tim: uh-huh]

00:07:22 Alex

Let's find out. That's, that's... I think elements that I want to play with. [Tim: Yeah] I, I wrote some things here as well too, that as a dungeon master, as a game master, the person who runs these sorts of games, I feel like it ties in with my personality as a middle child, as perhaps a CODA in terms of entertaining or being so, you know, deaf culture storytelling, and, and as I learn about these sort of things, I tie it into...

00:07:46 Alex

I want to do this aspect and do it at the best as I possibly can, and I've noticed playing with certain people, CODAs or hearing people, brings out certain elements of me. And I'll admit it's harder to do sign language stuff at a table with hearing people than it was with a table full of CODAs. [Tim: Yeah] And I came up with puzzles, and responses, and reactions, [Tim: mm-hmm] simcom or full sign language with a table that could sign than with a hearing table that keeps me talking and I can talk, that's for sure. [Tim jokingly: Really?]

00:08:14 Alex

But I feel… [Tim chuckling: hmm]

00:08:16 Alex

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's an aspect of my life.  

00:08:19 Alex

And, and I feel like dungeon mastering, game mastering is an element of sign culture in terms of managing and listening. [Tim: mm-hmm] And when did you become an interpreter as a CODA? Well, I think I'm an interpreter in a lot of different ways, whether it's interpreting the dice roles, interpreting a script, [Tim: yeah] interpreting a conversation, interpreting the art piece that we're looking at, so interpreting is I think inherent to life and we just seem to want to compartmentalize it to words and sound or signs and it's way more than that.

00:08:48 Tim

Yeah. Yeah. Well, if I'm the first fish on the hook [Alex chuckles] I, huh, you've given me many ideas of how to interpret my involvement with this art form, [Alex: mm-hmm] this, this media of, of gaming together. [Alex: mm-hmm]

00:09:07 Alex

And that's my aspect as well too. As long, long, long, long, long form storytelling in this very specific niche tabletop role-playing game, YouTube Live stream, [Tim: mm-hmm] but let's see where it goes. And let's see who it inspires or let's see how it engages. Aannd 100 years from now, who knows? Is it [Tim: yeah] of value or, or us a brick in the beautiful pyramid of awesome art. Who knows? [Tim: yeah]

00:09:30 Alex

But, as you bring that up, yeah, I… go ahead. And I run an open table, and you know, maybe there's video replies, or comment replies, or whatever, but it could all become one shared community of involvement. And I'm not saying yes or no to anything. I'm just kind of sitting back and letting it happen.

00:09:48 Tim

Yeah, that's a nice way of saying it, because as interpreters, we sign language interpreters especially, we don't just look at the words, we do look at the meaning. What is the meaning behind it? What is the intention? What is the goal? Interpretation is not just language, it's, it's a relationship.

00:10:06 Alex

I'll say it for interpreting, and I'll say it for game mastering. It's the perfect blend of art and science.

00:10:10 Alex

There's the technical execution that is very mechanical and systematic, but then there's the artistry of the cognitive feeling, intent, desired result. And then the emotional aspect. Am I overextending? Am I under extending? Do I care? Do I not care? And so, to have that art and science blend is the most human experience I can imagine.

00:10:34 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:10:35 Tim

Do you have hobbies? I do too, but the podcast isn't a hobby for me. It's a work for the profession. Recording history, recording how we perceive the profession now in many countries. So please donate to this cause. Click on the links in the show notes to support the show.

00:10:55 Tim

Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:10:58 Tim

Let's switch gears like I do in all of my interviews, and let's do word association, which is where I give you a word or a phrase, and then you give me whatever comes first to your mind, whether it is a word, a phrase, a reaction, a story, any of that. So, in no particular order…

00:11:19 Alex

I wish you could roll a dice for this. [both laughing] Have a little table and it's like one to twenty.

00:11:27 Tim

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:29 Alex

I'll roll it. You want me to roll it?

00:11:30 Tim

Please, yeah, please roll it.

00:11:32 Alex

Alright now we're playing our first session, Tim. So, what do you want, D20, D6, D4?

00:11:35 Tim

I have 32 words. Just do D20. I'll do the first 20.

00:11:40 Alex

OK, sure. Here we go…

00:11:40 Alex

Number 1, Crit Fail [critical fail].

00:11:43 Tim

Alright… [both laughing]

00:11:44 Alex

One! I know, that's metaphorical or what?

00:11:48 Tim

So, the first one is… [chuckles]

00:11:51 Tim

Uniquely the same - I use for almost every interview, comfort food.

00:11:56 Alex

Comfort food. I don't know. For some reason, KFC, like, popped into my head. But then Chinese food popped into my head.

00:12:04 Alex

And that's maybe on the broader sense of mainstream media, but for me, I guess Chinese food.

00:12:11 Tim

Yeah, OK. Hot and spicy or…?

00:12:14 Alex

No, I am not a spicy person. Yeah, I, I want to enjoy my food. And it's… Yeah, I don't, I don't wanna struggle.

00:12:20 Tim

Yeah, yeah. No, no sweating, no burning mouth. Yeah, yeah.

00:12:24 Alex

Yeah, you just have to get to enjoy it. It's like what? I, I want to enjoy it from the start. [Tim chuckling: yeah]

00:12:30 Tim

OK. And next…?

00:12:32 Alex

Nat 20. We went from critical fail to critical success. [both chuckling] This is, this is telling.

00:12:38 Tim

OK, let me make sure it is… technology.

00:12:42 Alex

Computers, film, movies, I self-taught myself Final Cut Pro in college off on the heels of having a video production class in high school and that is one of the best things I ever could have done.

00:12:56 Tim

Wow, yeah.

00:12:57 Alex

But it's probably indicative of a iPhone iMovie generation that I'm like, at the early heels of.

00:13:04 Tim

Mm-hmm do you still use it or something different now.

00:13:07 Alex

I actually am Adobe all the way, but I cut my teeth on Final Cut Pro, iMovie-ish.

00:13:14 Tim

Yeah. OK. Next? [Alex: 17] Ohhh, fake.

00:13:20 Alex

Nose. Fake nose. [Tim bursts out laughing]

00:13:23 Alex

Yeah.

00:13:24 Alex

It's one of those you know, those fake glasses with the fake nose on them and they… just comes to mind.

00:13:29 Tim

OK, I don't know why that made me think CODA when you did that. [Alex chuckles] But anyway, OK next…?

00:13:35 Alex

9.

00:13:36 Tim

OK, pet peeve.

00:13:39 Alex

My pet peeve, and I thought about this I because I, I wanted to find my own pet peeve, [Tim laughs] recently. I hate squeaky floors. [Tim: hmm]

00:13:49 Alex

Squeaky floors are my pet peeves. I need to stop them and when we just bought this house a couple years ago, I went around town...

00:13:57 Alex

…just drilling into the floorboards [Tim chuckles] as best as I possibly could because it's 100-year-old house and no one complained but me. [both chuckling]

00:14:07 Tim

What is it about that that irritates you?

00:14:10 Alex

And I'm sure it's this whole aspect of CODAness, deafness, or something where sometimes I just like to move about with as little impact as possible.

00:14:19 Alex

Closing the cabinets slightly, or just walking around trying to be as peaceful Zen-like as possible, and to have things [makes squeaky sounds] along the way, or like jingly keys, or squeaky shoes, or something it's like, ‘You could do this better.’

00:14:33 Alex

And it's just a pet peeve. It's just a pet peeve.

00:14:35 Tim

Yeah. Yeah. One of my pet peeves with some sign language interpreters.

00:14:40 Tim

Who make noises with their mouth, [Alex: mmm] or they whisper the words as they're signing.

00:14:47 Alex

I, I will say that that's probably a huge hindrance because in my journey in the film in the mid-West was the big aspect I learned of “turn your voice off”. “Wha- What?”. “Turn your voice off”, because I would whisper or SIMcom or whatever, just really bad habits. [Tim: hmm] And it changed everything because I wasn't-… the hearing loop of trying to get things sounding grammatically correct, or having perfect English, or whatever it might be is that influencing your mindset and plus…

00:15:20 Alex

By forcing a word vocally out into the world or on yourself, [Tim: mm-hmm] you limit what that sign could mean to other people, or to even to your own psyche, because sometimes I'll sign a sign and it'll be, you know, wet, moist, you know, damp and it'll be like 3 different words in my head, but I won’t say them.

00:15:41 Alex

But I won't say them. So, meditate on that rather than it's just this one word every time.

00:15:46 Tim

Yeah. Yeah. OK, next? [Alex: 18]

00:15:50 Tim

Ooo, character.

00:15:53 Alex

Indiana Jones, I, I, [Tim laughs] I feel like I am a character in a lot of people's ways and my friend had the Indiana Jones theme as my ringtone every time I called him. [Tim laughing: aahh]

00:16:06 Tim

What happened to ringtones? We used to have so many.

00:16:08 Alex

Yeah, you could buy them and they're like 4 bucks.

00:16:10 Tim

Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughing]

00:16:12 Alex

It's complete silent phone nowadays.

00:16:14 Tim

Yeah, me too. Yeah, that's sad. Ohh, well, childhood is gone. [Alex chuckles with Tim]

00:16:21 Tim

OK, next…?

00:16:23 Alex

16.

00:16:24 Tim

Magic.

00:16:25 Alex

-The Gathering. Magic the Gathering is a card game that is my extension of gaming that I really love.

00:16:33 Tim

Yeah. When did you start?

00:16:34 Alex

I started in middle school, the early middle school and had a bunch of cards and there was awesome playing at the library with my friends. We played D&D and stuff as well too. Then I sold all my cards and got rid of them for a long time [Tim: hmm] until rediscovering it in later half of college where we went to a gaming convention and saw a pack really cheap and just got into it like a bad habit all over again [Tim chuckling: yeah, yeah]

00:16:58 Tim

I started in ’95. The year after the game started. [Alex: Oh, wow.] And so I had some early edition cards.

00:17:07 Alex

Nice.

00:17:08 Tim

And when I moved here, I sold 12 cards for a little over $2700.

00:17:14 Alex

Yeah. Wow.

00:17:16 Tim

12 cards. I was like. That's gonna help me move to the Czech Republic, OK!

00:17:20 Alex

But you sold the cards. [both chuckling]

00:17:21 Tim

I know. Ohh!

00:17:24 Alex

Do you remember what one of them were? Was?

00:17:26 Tim

The Black Mox [Alex: Ooo, wow.] and I can't remember all of them. Now I have them on a list somewhere. [Alex: nice]

00:17:32 Tim

OK. And… let's do the last.

00:17:36 Alex

14.

00:17:37 Tim

14, heartbreaking.

00:17:39 Alex

You know, to tie it all together, how we started this whole thing with the redheaded girl conversation? …and that was heartbreaking moment for a lot of different reasons in a lot of different ways.

00:17:49 Alex

And if we were to like, use this moment of an interview as a therapy session, yeah, that would be, uh, something from my distant past that is heartbreaking for a number of different people because it was going through this uncertain time that didn't have language or understanding, but it was very profound. And I think like…

00:18:07 Alex

…a dying husk, we need to burn ourselves in the flame to have the Phoenix rise out again. We need to go through those times, and it's been whatever, 20, 15, 17, 20 years or whatever since that moment. And I've, I've definitely grown past that point, but you want word association, well, heartbreaking reminds me of that time and, and to tie it all together.

00:18:30 Tim

And this was the interpreter that came into Starbucks?

00:18:32 Alex

Yes, because as I sort of mentioned in passing, there was the you know like a Charlie Brown, the red headed girl of my high school relationship days was… [Tim: yeah]

00:18:40 Alex

…going through things with me as well, so to have this sign language, redheaded girl with a hearing redheaded girl. It was very amazing people don't, don't get me wrong, but just, I didn't have the understanding or the language or even the social skill set to better navigate a romantic relationship, and then a self-discovery relationship and have it be so seminal to me.

00:19:00 Alex

And to go out into the world hyper focused on finding sign language in life, in love, or whatever it might be, [Tim: mm-hmm] was very heartbreaking for a number of different folks during that time. And, and it was foundational to my existence, but it's OK to share those things, because as an artist, you need to get those, those heartfelt moments out there to learn from yourself, to hear yourself share and for others hear as well too. [Tim: yeah]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:19:29 Tim

So, speaking of heartbreaking, what mistakes did you make specifically because you were a CODA?

00:19:37 Alex

Yes, I mentioned old signs used incorrectly. One of them was “Hey you have cool style.”

00:19:44 Tim

Uh-huh.

00:19:45 Alex

And the person was like, “What?!” Like you might take advantage of, like, manipulate, like, like molest, or like, very negatively used. And I was like, “OK, I guess that's an old house sign that we have. That’s, that’s, ok…” [Tim chuckles]

00:19:57 Alex

I've learned since that's a very specific CODA example in terms of sign language use.

00:20:02 Alex

Another one was at my high school football coaches house that I would go to all the time. They were like, you know, second, third family to me. [Tim: Yeah] I'm, you know, we're watching football hanging out as, as a, as a team, as a family, or whatever. And then I just let out a huuge belch [arrrRRGGH] [Tim laughs]

00:20:18 Alex

And the coach’s wife is like, “Well, we don't do that here.” [Tim laughing] And it was like this moment of just like, “Ohh.” Well obviously, I was like a teenager at the time too, so probably just disgusting as well.

00:20:28 Alex

But it was just a moment of, “Thank you for course-correcting me.” Along the same lines at a different you know, second, third family's home, I would bite my fork kink, tink and the mom was a dentist and she'd be like, “Please don't bite your fork like that.” I wouldn't do it all the time, but she would point it out every time I did it. [Tim: mm-hmm]

00:20:45 Alex

And I'm sure these small instances of either culture or noise related things were never really brought to my attention in a deaf household. So, to have these, you know, second or third families help course-correct me is one of those mistakes that I'm sure I've made along the way as a CODA.

00:21:00 Tim

Huh. I would have never thought that, obviously.

00:21:03 Alex

[laughing] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it was very brought up to you early on as a child, you know.

00:21:08 Tim

Exactly. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:11 Tim

Again, as a CODA, what warnings would you give to interpreting students, or interpreters, or teachers?

00:21:20 Alex

Yeah, warnings. That's a, that's a question mark. Warnings like…

00:21:24 Alex

Beware do not go beyond the old and broken bridge. [Tim laughs]

00:21:28 Alex

Like uh, but I feel like to tie it, you know, football coach, surprisingly football was a large portion of my life. But I don't really care about sports or, but I appreciate the athleticism of it. [Tim: mm-hmm] Get your reps, get your repetitions. As my college coach would always say, get… “You need to have your repetitions; you need to be doing things over and over and over again.”

00:21:49 Alex

And that's tough with language, so it ties into get into the community, ties in to have peers and friends. You need sign language friends. You need deaf dinners and doesn't- Deaf or otherwise. You just need to focus on… get yourself a gaming group and say we're just going to sign. You know, we're doing sign language D&D, we're doing sign language coffee nights. Maybe it's very rudimentary and very exemplary, but sometimes that doesn't exist, or sometimes people look at it very mechanically.

00:22:17 Alex

I want to pick up this personal skill, get a career and go execute. And they maybe aren't the best proficiently or fluidly, [Tim: mm-hmm] or what have you. So those are my sort of warnings, cause I've internalized that as well too.

00:22:32 Alex

Uh, I signed with mom and dad, like terrible in terms of reps and execution, but having signing friends and peers and… increases your language and your fluidity and your patience to use it. [Tim: mm-hmm] Rather than “How was school?” “Good.” “No, like, tell me more about school”. Like “well, I would do this and that”, you know, like you might not say that to mom and dad, but like, you have a friend and you, “Oh, you know, Johnny did this and blah….

00:22:55 Alex

we got into a fight about it.” Great. Look at that use of language and, and I'm grateful for those peers that I have found along the way, and communities.

00:23:06 Alex

So yeah, that's a general, broad, interpreting students, researchers… Ah, interpreting researchers I’d love to try to get involved with various research projects.

00:23:16 Alex

Because I feel it is so rich to contribute to those worlds in whatever way shape or form.

00:23:23 Alex

I think the research maybe because I am a nerd and I appreciate academia and understand it from a foundational level, but it's we're just scratching the surface of this research world, and I feel there's some deep value to it that we need to justify and prove in data in these very specific and defined ways that…

00:23:46 Alex

I don't know if I want to deal with as a creative [Tim laughing] and then as a go getter, but I want to contribute because I understand you need large sample sizes. [Tim: yeah] So, you try and get out there and, and try to pay your subjects. [both chuckling] You know, that's, I think it's always appealing as well too, you know, I'll volunteer. But come on. [Tim: yeah] It's a large aspect that I have a problem sometimes with…

00:24:07 Alex

…with the small grassroots deaf community is the large volunteer aspect, and… [Tim: yeah] You get what you pay for. I understand money's not everything, but it, it definitely greases the wheels and gets things moving and has a demand on people's focus, time, and attention. So, for researchers, for students, for teachers like, try your best to get a budget.

00:24:27 Tim

Yeah.

00:24:28 Tim

From your point of view, what have your parents taught you about the interpreting world?

00:24:35 Alex

Hmm.

00:24:36 Tim

Or their use of interpreters.

00:24:38 Alex

Yes, obviously there's always that commercial aspect to it, maybe now more than ever as opposed to 100 years ago. And oh, good money, good money, but at the same time, as I mentioned earlier, that aspect of like…

00:24:49 Alex

Don't get involved with deaf stuff, [Tim: mm-hmm] for whatever way shape or form, “small world”.

00:24:54 Alex

Again, I think a very naive and limited perspective because I want to believe in kingdoms that are run by deaf kings and you know, like the, the armies that are run by sign language and stuff like that. So, there's like a large world out there [Tim: mm-hmm] that we aren't aware of. So, to limit your thinking, I think limits your opportunity. But as far as specifically interpreters…

00:25:15 Alex

Yeah, have heart, I guess. Or, you know, I think in this probably a deaf culture aspect, which I love, warm and welcoming. And once you know the language, they're your best friend, that interpreter at church, you know, one of our best friends, [Tim: mm-hmm] you know, this interpreter showed up for an assignment, we're going to ask you about your life, even though we just met you and like, you're only here for a 2-hour job. [Tim: mm-hmm]

00:25:42 Alex

And that, that's just probably the perspective on life and labels maybe don't necessarily have a place, because if we can communicate then where …we can communicate. But at the same time, I can imagine another perspective being you're just an interpreter. [Tim: mm-hmm] And having such a hard boundary and a hard line, and maybe not so much my parents giving me this, but I've seen that perspective when I have become more hyper aware of the camps and, and, and perspectives on them all. [Tim: yeah]

00:26:08 Alex

Not to say I have, I haven’t viewed them, but I've seen them in like, “oh, wow”. And it kind of happened at that film project in the Midwest in which we had interpreters on site. And one of them was even romantically involved, like they were dating one of the crew members. Oh, but 5:00, they were told, “Can you please leave?” And I was like, “Why? Like, wait, we're gonna go here after this?” “I'm. I'm an interpreter. I need to leave”. And I was, “I OH!”

00:26:31 Alex

You know that was an eye opening experience for me to see such a hard line put in a place by the deaf consumer or whatever, [Tim: Yeah] to be like, can you please leave? It's 5:00. Yeah, like, “aren't you two, you're gonna, you two are gonna end up home together”. Like, “another person”. Or like, “Yes. Like you're part of this, right?” [Tim chuckles] “No, but you're an interpreter. So, please leave.”

00:26:50 Alex

So, these are, these are things that I've learned about in terms of [Tim: hmm] the social etiquette with the labels of them all. Maybe another reason that I don't want to be an interpreter is the labels associated with it.

00:27:00 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:27:05 Tim

What one thing would you tell interpreters to stop doing?

00:27:11 Alex

Stop trying to get it right. “Right.” It's more art than science. These, I guess tying back to what we sort of said, there's, you know…

00:27:21 Alex

“How do I say hello?”

00:27:23 Alex

You know, you know, like sort of these aspects, obviously very rudimentary, but like [Tim: yeah] those are my furious responses that I've learned to curb. It's like you don't have a gut feeling on how to say hello to someone? [Tim laughing: uh, yeah]

00:27:36 Alex

Try! Just try to get it right. Like you won't, you're like, “Hello. Hello.” Like you're not gonna do that. You're not gonna flip someone off and like, you just, you just know it. Now I understand that's the fear people have. It's like, “Oh, let's say, Hello. Hello.” Like, OK, you're not, you're not Italian, you know, swearing at people, but it's… don't worry about getting it right!

00:27:55 Alex

‘Cause your intent will speak deeper than your execution. [Tim: mm-hmm] Now that's probably a naive statement where someone’s missed sign could mean someone's life or death, or lifelong imprisonment, and they’re stories out there that I'm sure we could point to. But I think intent and fear is what keeps people away from actually getting the job done or, or improving along the way. [Tim: mm-hmm]

00:28:20 Alex

So don't be afraid but be willing to learn and willing to correct yourself. People want to try to get it right and they end up, never trying at all. [Tim: Yeah, yeah]

00:28:29 Tim

Well, Alex, it's been fun. It's been eye opening, and it's been exciting, energizing all of that. So, thank you for coming on.

00:28:38 Alex

Thanks for having me, Tim.

00:28:39 Tim

All right. We'll see you soon.

00:28:41 Alex

I'll be back if you have me. [both chuckling]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:28:49 Tim

What a wonderful, fresh perspective we've gotten from Alex over the last three episodes. His viewpoint, his lens on our world and the communities that we serve have given me food for thought, definitely. I was excited to interview Alex because he also shares my passion for the gaming that I love to do and have for many decades.

00:29:13 Tim

But he blends American Sign Language into that hobby, into that passion. And I was so happy to ask him why, because it gave me the fresh look at our profession. It enhanced my passion for what I do to make a living, and I hope it gave you a little insight into how we can look at ourselves differently.

00:29:34 Tim

We're always talking about self-reflection; well this is self-reflection and profession-reflection. Renewing what we see and how we do what we do. The quotes from Alex are numerous.

00:29:49 Tim

One of them is, that interpreting is such an integral part of life and we in our profession we try to narrow it down to distill it down to just words, signs, sounds rather than the art and science that is blended together into what we do, into the discourse, into the interaction and relationships that are happening at that moment.

00:30:10 Tim

Oh, we talk about those things, but when it comes down to doing the job, we revert back to those seeds of when we were first learning how to be professional and about the interpretation itself, rather than the art that we're blending in the integral part of life. We all interpret every moment of our lives. We interpret what's happening, we interpret where we are going, where we are, where we've been, what someone said, what do they really mean and not just during our work?

00:30:50 Tim

It's a complicated business, being social, interacting with others. But if we stop trying to compartmentalize what we do, we can open up into that beautiful blend of art and science that Alex refers to. And for me, it's just another adventure.

00:31:11 Tim

Another quest.

00:31:12 Tim

In the game of life, we all play roles and that's why I play role-playing games. It enhances my passion for my work and my work enhances my passion for the games. Just like Alex has done in his hobbies and his work and his life.

00:31:30 Tim

Sometimes we just have to think, I'm going to say it, I'm going to do it and let someone else interpret what they think it really means. Have you ever been interpreting, and you have a conversation just in sign language with one client, while the other clients are looking at you because they're spoken language people, they're hearing people?

00:31:51 Tim

And they don't quite understand what you're doing or saying, do you always interpret for them? Do you always summarize for them. Or do you say it's not important? Maybe later. Sometimes we can do that, let them figure it out.

00:32:05 Tim

Let them be curious and ask, start the conversation themselves rather than us taking the responsibility as the interpreter all the time.

00:32:15 Tim

Creating the curiosity can create a new conversation. Maybe we need to step back from our role as interpreter and be human in the experience and let someone else take the responsibility. Maybe they don't want to know what we said, or maybe they need to know what it feels like not to know what someone said.

00:32:36 Tim

I truly enjoy talking with Alex and I will talk to him again, whether here or in my other passion of gaming.

00:32:45 Tim

But until then…

00:32:47 Tim

Keep calm…

00:32:49 Tim

Keep interpreting your hobby, your passion, your game. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:33:31]