IW 93: Interview Amaresh Gopalakrishnan Part 3: Keep Your Mouth Shut and Eat Your Curd Rice

"How can you have any curd rice, if you don't keep your mouth shut?!"

Today we go back to India for more conversation with Amaresh. He tells us about how the professional sign language interpreting organization in India was established. We discuss how travel affects us as humans and as sign language interpreters. We touch on technology's influences, ethics, and more.

Listen to learn about a dish I had never heard of Curd Rice. Enjoy!

Transcript

IW 93: Interview Amaresh Gopalakrishnan Part 3: Keep Your Mouth Shut and Eat Your Curd Rice

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS] 

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go tointerpretersworkshop.com

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by American science fiction author Frank Herbert.

00:00:42 Tim

“Technology is both a tool for helping humans and for destroying them. This is the paradox of our times, which were compelled to face.”

00:00:55 Tim

In today's episode, we continue the conversation with Amaresh Gopalakrishnan, the CODA sign language interpreter from India.

00:01:05 Tim

We talk a little bit more about the sign language interpreting profession, including ethics, working conditions, about how the sign language interpreting association came to be in India, and we delve a little bit into culture, developing as an interpreter, questioning CODA identity.

00:01:26 Tim

And of course, technology.

00:01:29 Tim

Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:35 Tim

When was the year that the sign language interpreting organization was established?

00:01:40 Amaresh

I believe 2008. Yeah, it was… We had an initial conference… [Tim: mhmm]

00:01:47 Amaresh

…where we decided to set this association up. [Tim: yeah] A few interpreters, uh, in India, we get together in 2008.

00:01:58 Amaresh

We decided to set this up and officially it was registered much later. I think around 2014. We started work as early as 2008, here.

00:02:08 Tim

What started this idea to do it?

00:02:11 Amaresh

It's probably because of two things. First thing, is after we started off the course, uh, the diploma course, so we were producing a few interpreters.

00:02:22 Tim

Mm-hmm.

00:02:23 Amaresh

We needed to have a body or an agency to offer support to these interpreters in case they needed any kind of support after they completed the course. So, we had a lot of different is coming back saying that they were finding difficulty finding jobs or work, and they're not getting paid well, and stuff like that. So. So we had a lot of issues. [Tim: yeah] So, we felt like we needed to have a body to try and support interpreters in India to try and make this into a proper profession.

00:02:57 Tim

Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.

00:02:58 Amaresh

So that is probably one of the main reasons, of course.

00:03:02 Amaresh

Secondly, because there was WASLI there, we had interpreter associations in other countries, so that probably, you know, triggered the thought process also that we should have association so that we can actually take part in international conferences, international events, [Tim: mhmm] stuff like that. So…

00:03:19 Amaresh

We get to have some kind of authority, or voice to take part in these events here.

00:03:26 Tim

When was it that you first had contact with interpreters from other countries and you started learning about it as a profession outside of India?

00:03:36 Amaresh

Ummm, I'm trying to remember first time I met an interpreter out, from outside India.

00:03:43 Amaresh

Well, initially when we started off the Diploma courses and when I was training interpreters.

00:03:51 Amaresh

We had a lot of international students in my institution.

00:03:56 Amaresh

So, we had students from the Maldives. We had students from Vietnam, from Indonesia. [Tim: mhmm] So, we trained interpreters, you know, for them. We train-, well yeah, they learned Indian Sign language.

00:04:13 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

00:04:15 Amaresh

But, but mainly, you know, we trained them more on interpreting skills. [Tim: Yeah] You know, how they interpret it and those kind of things. So rather than sign language, per se.

00:04:28 Amaresh

So yeah, of course. So, I had a lot of contact with uh, probably I trained some of the international interpreters who are working now, so it's not [what you meant]. But to working with international interpreters, I mean interpreters from outside India working with them, probably was much later. [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:49 Amaresh

I would say that I started off with the international sign interpreting, [Tim: mhmm] so it's probably, you know, after that obviously you work, you work with another interpreter who is from another country. [Tim: mmm] So probably that's how I started working on the outside of India.

00:05:08 Amaresh

But I think I've been in touch with interpreters outside India for a very long time, so.

00:05:15 Tim

So, it was just kind of a natural.

00:05:17 Amaresh

It's a natural progression. So, because, you-, you're always in this field, you always, uh, you do a lot of work in the, in this field. So, you're obviously trying to connect with people abroad, to get ideas, to get information, to get knowledge, to get inputs, you know, to improve the training and improve curriculum and stuff like that so.

00:05:37 Tim

Yeah, that makes sense. Natural progression, trying to find out information that you don't have. [Amaresh: yes] It might be out there somehow. [Amaresh: Yeah] Makes sense. Yeah. Has the interpreting organization or the interpreting community found that the deaf community is supportive and working with you in some way or pushing you in some way?

00:06:00 Amaresh

There's always been uh, well, there’s positives and negatives also in this, you know, in this question when you ask. There’s positives and negatives, you know, like the deaf community have been very, they're very, very receptive. They accept, uh they accept the interpreter, they work with the interpreter very well.

00:06:20 Amaresh

And there've also been instances where they did not like that, that they pushed them off.

00:06:24 Tim

Yeah.

00:06:25 Amaresh

So… Well, it completely depends on the interpreter, what kind of skill he or she has. [Tim: yeah] And whether they're doing a good job, professional job, or whether they have some kind of hidden agenda behind… something like that. So, the most important thing is…

00:06:41 Amaresh

Once they form the trust then “you are in”. [Tim: yeah]

00:06:47 Amaresh

You know? So, to build up trust. It takes time. So, the Deaf community, they might, you know, like use you once or twice, they would judge you and see how you are interpreting… [Tim: mhmm]

00:06:57 Amaresh

Especially after, after the work is done.

00:07:03 Amaresh

If you can keep your mouth shut… [Tim laughing]

00:07:06 Amaresh

If you can keep your mouth shut and not disclose things to others, you know.

00:07:11 Tim

Yeah.

00:07:11 Amaresh

It happens a lot in India like… it's just a very gray area, I could say. [Tim: yeah]

00:07:17 Amaresh

We have interpreters, who are CODAs, or, even I would put myself in that category too initially, uh, even I was like that. So, I thought that I, I could help [Tim: mhmm] with deaf community. You know, the word help. [Tim: Yeah] Assist them, you know, like help them improve the standard and stuff like that.

00:07:39 Amaresh

Because you get to know a lot of things when you interpret, you get a lot of information. [Tim: Yeah] So, you tend to you know, spill that information over to the deaf community and try to encourage change and things. [Tim: Yeah] So, in, for example, if you have a meeting with the government official…

00:07:56 Amaresh

…you know, and the deaf people, they have probably limited info, and how the government works, and how what kind of points to put forth. So, after the meeting is over. So, I interpret in the meeting, fine. After the meeting is over… so I have a lot of ideas. [Tim chuckles]

00:08:14 Amaresh

You know, like, which I can give it to them so they can use it in the next meeting and stuff like that. So, you…

00:08:19 Tim

Yeah.

00:08:20 Amaresh

It's so natural that you being in that community for such a long time.

00:08:25 Tim

Yeah.

00:08:25 Amaresh

Now, it's just, it's so natural that you say that to them. You know?

00:08:30 Amaresh

You give that input to them. So, you can do this and do that [Tim: mhmm] and you try to get that certain advice and all that. Sooo, there’s a lot of interpreters who do that.

00:08:40 Amaresh

Well I used to do that, but then I learned it the hard way and I said, “OK, I need to stop this.”

00:08:47 Tim

Yeah.

00:08:47 Amaresh

You know?

00:08:48 Amaresh

But they need to learn if they want, they can ask. But not as an interpreter, but as Amaresh, if they want to ask me as a person, as Amaresh, if they want to get my advice separately, then I can give it to them. [Tim: yeah]

00:09:02 Amaresh

Unless and otherwise I’m asked, it’s just none of my business, just “trap shut”. After the assignments done, just forget about it. Yeah. So, that maturity has evolved now, but initially, you know, when we are younger, you have that hot blood in you. You want to do stuff for the community. You see that things are not improving, and you know you can do if you have the capability of, to do that. [Tim: mhmm]

00:09:33 Amaresh

Sometimes, yeah, there's friction, sometimes it doesn't happen, sometimes it's positive, sometimes it's negatives and friction. So, all that happens.

00:09:42 Amaresh

So, it's very important as an interpreter, you need to understand where your limits are. [Tim: mhmm]

00:09:49 Amaresh

So, once you do that, you can slowly start gaining the trust of the deaf people, the deaf community. So, once they know that, you know, after the assignment is done, you're not discussing this with anyone, [Tim: yeah] not even to them! That, that they like. That you give the agency to them, so they have to think. They have to do their own kind of research and whatever. So, if they fail, they fail and they learn. Right? [Tim: Yeah] If you just disturb that process, you don't know how they are thinking internally. You know?

00:10:23 Tim

Exactly.

00:10:24 Amaresh

It depends on all that so.

00:10:26 Amaresh

The deaf people, they see you, they look at you, they observe you. They, they find that you are doing a good job and they trust you. They love to use you all the time. Yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:10:43 Tim

In most countries where I've gone, most people always say you know the interpreting community, the deaf community. They're small communities. [Amaresh: Yeah] You know, word gets around quickly.

00:10:53 Tim

But you have 18,000,000 Deaf and 1000 interpreters, which is more than many countries actually on, well, both sides do you feel the same thing? That it's a small community and it spreads quickly.

00:11:09 Amaresh

Well, 18,000,000 may sound a lot, but when you see it in, in like in terms of the population in India. [both chuckle]

00:11:20 Amaresh

It's still, yeah, still 1 or 2% of the population. [both laughing]

00:11:26 Amaresh

So, relatively speaking I would still say it’s small community, you know.

00:11:30 Tim

Yeah.

00:11:30 Amaresh

Whatever happens in other countries, we have that in India too, all the backbiting and stuff like that. So, all that happens, yeah.

00:11:39 Tim

Yeah, yeah. Now in Europe and in the US, technology has really allowed the deaf community to communicate via video in many ways, many different apps. Do you see the same thing in India?

00:11:55 Amaresh

Yeah, definitely so.

00:11:57 Amaresh

In India, as you know IT, India is famous for IT and technology. It's so, it's very easy over here [for] technology to take its place over here. So deaf people definitely use that a lot and not only communicating with, with other regions within India, but also internationally. So now…

00:12:19 Tim

Yeah.

00:12:20 Amaresh

It's, you know, like the wall has opened up for them. You know. They can access... They're able to access people from across the globe. The other side of the world, they're able to communicate with them.

00:12:32 Tim

So, has that affected interpreters as well? Do you interpret remotely sometimes for other states in India?

00:12:39 Amaresh

Yeah, definitely we do that. Yes, we do that. So, we definitely do that. So, I get a lot of requests from other states in India for interpreting. So, I do that remotely online. [Tim: mhmm] So that happens a lot. And we also have, uh…

00:12:56 Amaresh

I think it's a firm, a company that just started the video relay services. [Tim: Yeah] So, we have we have a firm who's trying to do that. So, internal apps videos, they’ll use WhatsApp to call the interpreter [Tim: mhmm] and the interpreter calls whoever you want to contact…and speaks with them and…starts to interpret for you.

00:13:19 Amaresh

So, all of that is happening. [Tim: mhmm] Definitely technology has helped a lot. [Tim: yeah]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:13:25 Tim

Thank you to all the hundreds of people following this podcast. If you want to hear from interpreters around the world and get the latest episodes, follow the podcast in your app. Just check out some of the links in the show notes to help you with that. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:13:43 Tim

So, let's do some word association where I tell you a word or a phrase, and then you come up with the first thing that comes into your mind, whether it's a word or a phrase or a story, a concept that comes to your mind and we'll go from there.

00:13:59 Tim

OK.

00:14:00 Amaresh

So, it's something like a rapid-fire round or something like that. [Tim: Yeah] So, you say something. And the first thing that comes to my mind, yeah.

00:14:06 Tim

Say it, or if it's a story, or if there's many things, or yeah.

00:14:10 Amaresh

OK, OK. Sure.

00:14:11 Tim

Alright, let's start off with…

00:14:14 Tim

Comfort food.

00:14:17 Amaresh

Curd rice.

00:14:18 Tim

Say that again. [puzzled]

00:14:20 Amaresh

We have something called curd rice over here.

00:14:22 Tim

Colored rice.

00:14:23 Amaresh

Curd, C-U-R-D.

00:14:25 Tim

Curd rice.

00:14:27 Amaresh

Curd rice. Yeah. So, we have that. We mix curd with rice and add little salt and probably add little, little spices and so it's really, it really soothes your stomach and it's very good for your health. [Tim: yeah]

00:14:40 Amaresh

Curd rice. Yeah, that's definitely the one thing I would love, when my stomach’s upset and just turn, turn to curd rice and it helps you. [Tim: ahh] Home remedy. [laughs]

00:14:53 Tim

OK, I will look that up myself. I've never had that. I've had both curds or rice, but not together.

00:15:00 Amaresh

Together, yeah.

00:15:02 Tim

OK, next…

00:15:05 Tim

Pet peeve.

00:15:08 Amaresh

Mmm, I'm trying to think, uh, I don't have anything as such...

00:15:14 Tim

Ohh, you're one of those perfect people, OK. [acting silly]

00:15:17 Amaresh

Ah, I wouldn’t say perfect. [both laugh]

00:15:22 Tim

OK. No, that's good.

00:15:24 Tim

Next…

00:15:26 Tim

Language.

00:15:27 Amaresh

Expression.

00:15:29 Tim

Expression, OK.

00:15:31 Tim

Next…

00:15:33 Tim

Fun.

00:15:34 Amaresh

Travel.

00:15:35

Travel. Oh yeah, OK…

00:15:38 Tim

Interpreting.

00:15:40 Amaresh

Passion.

00:15:41 Tim

Passion, OK.

00:15:44 Tim

Next…

00:15:45 Tim

CODA.

00:15:46 Amaresh

Well, CODA, how do you say that in one word. I'm trying to find a word. [laughing]

00:15:51 Tim

It's OK. You can say it in many words.

00:15:54 Amaresh

Who… am… I?

00:15:56 Tim

Who am I?

00:15:57 Amaresh

What's my identity?

00:15:59 Amaresh

Identity crisis.

00:16:01 Tim

Hmm.

00:16:02 Tim

Are you still questioning that?

00:16:05 Amaresh

Uhhhh.... [sighs]

00:16:08 Amaresh

I don't know. I don't know whether I would belong to either the hearing community or the deaf community and how.

00:16:17 Tim

Hmm.

00:16:18 Amaresh

I’m still struggling with it. Yeah. [Tim: yeah]

00:16:21 Amaresh

mhmm.

00:16:22 Tim

So, you're just the CODA community then, yeah?

00:16:26 Amaresh

Yeah, CODA community, of course. OK! [laughs and Tim joins him] Thank you!

00:16:31 Tim

Yeah. Yeah, OK. Next… technology.

00:16:35 Amaresh

Uh… technology maybe…uh…

00:16:39 Amaresh

Destruction.

00:16:40 Tim

De-struction.

00:16:42 Amaresh

Yeah. Destruction.

00:16:44 Tim

Why do you say that?

00:16:45 Amaresh

I mean, uh...

00:16:48 Amaresh

If you see the latest technology that we have it, it just destroys life, you know like…

00:16:54 Amaresh

Smartphones, when you see children are stuck with their smartphones, they don't play outside, and stuff like that.

00:17:02 Amaresh

With technology you get a lot of bad things. You can just destroy a person's life. [Tim: Yeah] Yeah. So more than it has helped, it has destroyed. Like, I would say that.

00:17:15 Amaresh

You see the wars going on, you see…

00:17:19 Amaresh

Yeah. So many negative things have happened because of technology, yeah. [Tim: mmm]

00:17:25 Amaresh

Probably if you didn't have this kind of technology, we’d still be in a better place.

00:17:29 Tim

Mmm, wow. CODA philosopher. That's nice.

00:17:36 Amaresh

[bursts out laughing] Woow. Well, you asked.

00:17:37 Tim

[laughing too] Ohh yeah, no I wanted the answer. That's beautiful.

00:17:40 Amaresh

Now I didn’t say that technology is always destructive, but…

00:17:43 Tim

Sure.

00:17:44 Amaresh

More than helping it has kind of a negative effect, yeah. [Tim: yeah]

00:17:49 Tim

So, you say it hurts the society by being disconnected from each other or?

00:17:55 Amaresh

I wouldn’t say it disconnects people, it connects people, it disconnect it. It does both.

00:18:00 Tim

Yeah.

00:18:01 Amaresh

I wouldn't say technology itself is destructing, it's, it’s how people use it, [Tim: mhmm] which is why, you know, if people use it in a negative way, then it's very destructive. Why I mentioned technology as destructive is because of how we are of how people are.

00:18:16 Tim

Mhmm.

00:18:17 Amaresh

So, because of technology, many of the negative traits are coming out.

00:18:23 Amaresh

We see a lot of negative traits going around, a lot of negative news going around, so.

00:18:29 Amaresh

It affects people, it affects society, it, you know, like one small misinformation, you know, like that could create chaos. [Tim: mhmm]

00:18:40 Amaresh

So things like that. So, if people are responsible, if they're mature enough to know how to use technology in a proper way, then maybe, you know, I would, you would say technology is very healthy, but it's made lives easier and stuff like that. [Tim: mmm]

00:18:58 Amaresh

As humans, we have, you know, developed technologies, technology’s progressed. It has very, very bad side effects, very, very negative side effects, on the environment, and on people, [Tim: yeah] on society. [Tim: mmm] So yeah, that's why.

00:19:14 Tim

OK.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:19:20 Tim

Alright, next…

00:19:22 Tim

Culture.

00:19:23 Amaresh

Life.

00:19:25 Tim

Why?

00:19:27 Amaresh

When you see different cultures, you feel alive.

00:19:29 Tim

Hmm.

00:19:30 Amaresh

You go to a different culture, you learn something, you learn about life, about how their living is, and stuff like that. You learn about life. Go to different culture and you see how they are, what kind of things they do, what kind of, what kind of perception they have. So, you learn more about life so…[Tim: hmm]

00:19:49 Amaresh

There's a lot, you know?

00:19:50 Amaresh

You learn how to be a person, to be a better person? [Tim: Yeah] You respect different cultures and stuff like that. So each and every culture has their own unique perspective, their unique traits.

00:20:03 Amaresh

Well, so you learn a lot, you know. So, when you learn, you learn more about yourself and you learn more about life itself. Life is just not a small place. Life is vibrant. Life is like…

00:20:17 Amaresh

It's colorful. It's vibrant. It's different, it's varied. So, you experience all that. So, when you experience all that, you live your life completely. That's what I feel. [Tim: mmm]

00:20:30 Tim

Sounds like one of the reasons you like travel.

00:20:34 Amaresh

Of course. Definitely! You know? [both chuckle]

00:20:36 Amaresh

So recently, recently, I've been back from Thailand. In fact, I was… initially it was a very short stay but…

00:20:44 Amaresh

But I had to extend my stay in Thailand because you know, I want to see the culture won't work in the different parts of Thailand. Even in that small country, you have different cultures, North and South. You want to experience the culture you want to experience culture, you want experience life. How is life with that?

00:21:04 Amaresh

How is life with this. You want experience them. So, you live when you go there, you live and… [Tim: yeah]

00:21:10 Amaresh

…Have a different experience.

00:21:12 Amaresh

You try and see how you can live with that kind of culture and learn a lot. You live your life. Yeah. [Tim: yeah]

00:21:20 Tim

Is it natural when you're traveling to other countries that you meet other CODAs or interpreters or deaf community?

00:21:28 Amaresh

Yes, it's very natural and it's quite natural, so.

00:21:31 Amaresh

When I travel, it's mainly, uh…

00:21:33 Amaresh

It's more work related, so [Tim: mmm] get interpreting assignments that I travel abroad. Otherwise, I can't afford to travel, so [both chuckling] travel when I have been invited for work. [Tim: Yeah] So we…

00:21:47 Amaresh

Normally, you know, like when that happens then you are, we are within the deaf community itself, so you meet deaf people. You meet other interpreters, so… [Tim: sure]

00:21:57 Amaresh

So, you learn about the deaf community there. Also about the hearing community about the general culture of the region. Yeah.

00:22:06 Tim

Yeah, yeah. OK, great. OK, let's see next…

00:22:16 Tim

Ethics.

00:22:18 Amaresh

Responsibility.

00:22:19 Tim

OK, which means?

00:22:22 Amaresh

The ethics are, are probably certain pointers.

00:22:28 Amaresh

Which one assumes to become a responsible person, you know.

00:22:31 Amaresh

If you work in a certain area and you follow the ethics, or code of that particular area, so you become more responsive or more mature to work in that particular field. So, you should understand other people how they are feeling, and what is your limits, and, you know, and what you're allowed to do, what you're not allowed to do so.

00:22:53 Amaresh

It makes you more responsible person.

00:22:56 Amaresh

You understand how you need to behave in a certain way, so it helps you to become a more responsible human being.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:23:09 Tim

So many little gems of information that we got today.

00:23:13 Tim

Let me try to wrap it up for us to take home.

00:23:17 Tim

Some of you listening may understand how the interpreting association was formed.

00:23:23 Tim

It may not be unique to India for a sign language interpreting organization to begin based on the needs of the new interpreters being developed, but it also makes us think about why you want to be a part of a sign language interpreting association.

00:23:45 Tim

The support. there are issues about pay, working conditions, Ongoing education. Who do you turn to as an interpreter to help you with these issues? Where do you find support? That's where a sign language interpreting org- association or organization comes into play. Most of us are working alone most of the time.

00:24:14 Tim

And we think we're doing just fine. We don't need interpreting courses. We don't need support. We've been doing it for so long, we can do without that. But I know from experience that when you work with someone in a team that it just meshes. It's just great.

00:24:34 Tim

That feeling helps boost your passion for the interpreting profession…again… for our work.

00:24:43 Tim

The services that we provide are given more meaning again.

00:24:49 Tim

And that one little feeling from teaming with someone that really works well with you can be found in a sign language interpreting organization. You can find that, that feeling of support, that feeling of meshing with those who know what you're talking about, how you're feeling about your work.

00:25:10 Tim

It's a community. It's a culture.

00:25:14 Tim

It's a sense of belonging. When you're new to the profession, you have all the answers. You think you know what's going on. You think you know how to handle the ethical issues. But as Amaresh said, we don't really understand the complexities of what's going on.

00:25:37 Tim

Working with others in the profession, in the association, you learn. When you travel, when you meet new people in this profession, when you meet new clients in different regions, different cities, different countries, you learn a little bit more.

00:25:54 Tim

You see deeper in the culture of life, the culture of living. And that's when you look back at yourself knowing who you are is reflected by those around you.

00:26:10 Tim

So, try that new language. Try walking down that street, meet those people at the next table and enjoy your curd rice to get that comfort feeling of a new culture and a new life. So, until next time, keep calm. Keep your mouth shut.

00:26:30 Tim

And keep interpreting.

00:26:32 Tim

I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:27:10]