IW 92: Interview Amaresh Gopalakrishnan Part 2: Sign Language Interpreting-The Attractive Profession

Oh MY! That profession is attractive!

We need more sign language interpreters in every part of the world. My guest Amaresh Gopalakrishnan speaks to this concerning India. He tells us some of the foundational steps they have made to create awareness of the Deaf community's needs and building up and educating Indian Sign Language interpreters. With 18,000,000 Deaf they have a long way to go to fulfill the need for interpreters.

Links mentioned in this episode:
Amaresh's business, SIGNEX videos

• Visual Access to Communication A Right of the Deaf
• Indian Sign Language A Linguistic Human Right

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Transcript

IW 92: Interview Amaresh Gopalakrishnan Part 2: Sign Language Interpreting-The Attractive Profession

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS] 

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go tointerpretersworkshop.com

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by Scottish writer Jane Welsh Carlyle.

00:00:40 Tim

“The only thing that makes one place more attractive to me than another is the quantity of heart I find in it.”

00:00:50 Tim

The definition of attractive differs from person-to-person, perspective to perspective. In today's episode, Amaresh continues the conversation with us, and he gives a definition for what makes our profession, sign language interpreting attractive…

00:01:10 Tim

…attractive to those who want to become a new interpreter in our profession. Why would someone want to be a sign language interpreter? And we talk about many other things, such as his businesses that help increase depth awareness throughout India. And we find out a little more of how he just didn't want to interpret when he was younger.

00:01:39 Tim

And we talk a little bit about travel to India as well.

00:01:44 Tim

Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:50 Tim

In the beginning you were not interested in interpreting at all. Why is that?

00:01:55 Amaresh

Like I said, I was a very naughty kid.

00:01:57 Amaresh

So, I was I got into bad company. So I was, you know, I wanted to be with my friends all the time. So, whenever my parents needed me for interpreting, I didn't want to do it. [Tim: mmm]

00:02:09 Amaresh

Because I wanted to be with my friends, yeah most of the time.

00:02:11 Amaresh

So that was one reason.

00:02:12 Amaresh

Second, reason being, you know like…

00:02:15 Amaresh

Sometimes when you interpret your parents, they don't understand. And you feel frustrated, you know, “like it's such a simple thing. Why don't they understand?” You know, so… [Tim chuckles: yeah] Sometimes it happens. You know? [Tim: yeah] My sister, younger sister, she is able to deal with that better than me. [Tim: ahh, OK] [both laugh]

00:02:32 Amaresh

I'm kind of a short-tempered person, you know. I used to be short-tempered, so… It wasn't very interesting because you're doing from, from childhood, you know, like you. [Tim: Yeah] You don't want to do it when you grow up. You want to explore other things you want to explore the world you want to go out.

00:02:47 Amaresh

And well, do this you want to do that rather than, you know, go to a meeting and sit and interpret for your parents. [Tim: Yeah] I wanted to be out in the world. So, that was probably the main reason why, I wasn't really trying to get into the interpreting field. Yeah.

00:03:04 Tim

Yeah, that makes sense.

00:03:05 Amaresh

And probably also at with that period, you know, interpreting wasn't a professional job kind of thing, so. [Tim: mhmm]

00:03:15 Amaresh

You weren't getting paid very well. So, it wasn't very attractive. Yeah.

00:03:21 Tim

Yeah. So, has that changed from that time when you started having the diploma? How did that change as far as now you have new interpreters or people who want to interpret. Could they then get jobs and are how are they paid?

00:03:35 Amaresh

Well, the situation has improved drastically [Tim: Well, that’s good.] from then from that period. So, since we have started the diploma.

00:03:44 Amaresh

Initially, uh, there were a lot of organizations who wanted to have that kind of expertise with them. So, they would send the, one of their staff to learn sign language and stuff like that. And some of them would learn to go forward to complete their interpreting diploma. And when they get back so they're able to integrate for their organizations, you know, for their local communities so that improved a lot. [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:12 Amaresh

Umm. And the government also kind of accepted this as a professional, as a profession. [Tim: mhmm] So, here we have eh-pex body.

00:04:23 Amaresh

Apex Body, which is known as the Rehabilitation Council of India as a government institution [Tim: mhmm] which is mandated to look over stuff like this. The curriculum which is dealing with the disabilities. You know? [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:38 Amaresh

So, anything dealing with disabilities comes under their purview. So, we have to send that we have designed the diploma, we had to send it to them to get it approved and stuff like that. [Tim: mhmm] So, that was approved and that's how the diploma course is running.

00:04:53 Amaresh

So, once the RCI, the Rehabilitation Council of India, they certify an interpreter, they get the license number. It's a registration number. So, they get themselves registered and the, the registry of RCI registry as professional as sign language interpreter. [Tim: mhmm]

00:05:14 Amaresh

So, after that you are able to interpret at, uh, government settings in conferences. Well, if we have tried to make it more professional, we have streamed-lined it so that you know people who complete the diploma are allowed to interpret.

00:05:31 Amaresh

People who do not diploma they could interpret, but you know they would not probably get the standard rates as we have fixed here, you know? [Tim: mhmm] So, right now we have fixed some standard rates from interpreting. So, people who have completed the diploma who have got themselves certified and qualified, they are preferred more [Tim: mhmm] in… to interpret in settings or different settings, rather than uncertified people.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:06:03 Amaresh

So, in terms of professionalism, it has improved. That's still a long, long way to go. [Tim: mmm] Actually, the, the quality of interpreting still needs to be improved as such because, uh, the reason being that interpreting is not a very attractive profession.

00:06:22 Tim

In what way? Is it just the money?

00:06:24 Amaresh

Yeah. In terms of money, you know like to earn. [Tim: yeah] Because we don't get a lot of opportunities still. You know, those times we didn't have a lot of opportunities. So, we only got people who are already working in organizations. [Tim: mmm]

00:06:38 Amaresh

Or others who were interested. It usually is like they did not, uh... They could not go into any other field. They could not go into the other field. So, they have an opportunity to... So, they just want to do that. So, to get some kind of diploma just for educational… to have some degree that…

00:07:01 Amaresh

So, it was like that. So, we didn't have quality people to learn interpreting at that point of time. So, it was less like the low level people, I wouldn't call the low level, but just there weren't, you know like we had trainees who had just completed their school. [Tim: mhmm]

00:07:18 Amaresh

You know, they didn't have uh, kind of maturity. They don't have uh, kind of linguistic level. [Tim: mhmm]

00:07:23 Amaresh

You know, to interpret in high level settings, probably very social settings with normal conversation stuff that they can do it. [Tim: mhmm] We need that kind of maturity. You need that kind of knowledge.

00:07:35 Amaresh

So that was mistake. [Tim: yeah]

00:07:37 Amaresh

So slowly, initially the diploma was a one-year program when we started off and right now it's been upgraded to a 2 year program with a lot of linguistic stuff put into it. So, it's a much better program now. [Tim: mhmm]

00:07:53 Amaresh

I'm actually waiting to see what happens after this diploma, you know,dddd like we get interpreters, whether the quality is good or not. So, I'm still waiting to see.

00:08:02 Amaresh

Because this change happened very recently, [Tim: I see.] so we'll wait and see how it has improved. Yeah.

00:08:08 Tim

So, what is the ratio between sign language interpreters and, and the population of the deaf community?

00:08:16 Amaresh

That's, that's a huge difference because we have very, very, very few interpreters qualified interpreters in India. [Tim: mhmm]

00:08:23 Amaresh

I would say less than 1,000.

00:08:25 Tim

Yeah. And the deaf community themselves?

00:08:28 Amaresh

Like the, the community in India is estimated to be 18 million.

00:08:32 Tim

Only 18,000,000, oh OK. [Amaresh laughs: only 18 million]

00:08:38 Amaresh

Wow, that's just, just a rough calculation. Yeah, just rough statistics. It's not.

00:08:45 Tim

OK, 18 million. 18 million.

00:08:48 Tim

OK, so much more than any other country I know.

00:08:51 Amaresh

Yeah, definitely. [laughs]

00:08:53 Tim

I mean statistically that, that makes sense when you got so many people, but only 1000 interpreters. Uufff!

00:09:00 Amaresh

So that's why I said we used to have a long way to go because, so we still have to make this an attractive profession. [Tim: yeah]

00:09:07 Amaresh

For that, definitely we need to increase the revenue ratio of interpreters. [Tim: mhmm] So, we're still trying to do that.

00:09:13 Amaresh

We started trying to negotiate with the government.

00:09:15 Amaresh

So, the interpreter’s association, the Indian Sign Language Interpreters Association is there. [Tim: mhmm]

00:09:20 Amaresh

So, they are trying to, you know, advocate with the government and other agencies to try and improve the situation of interpreters in India to try and get more opportunities for them to try and get better renumeration for them. So, they’re trying to do that for them. So… [Tim: yeah]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:09:41 Tim

So, do you have mostly residential deaf schools, or do you have mainstream schools now? How is that affecting the interpreting profession?

00:09:53 Amaresh

Ah, well, I'm not sure if it's affecting our interpreting profession per se, but yeah the educational system is kinda completely shifting now.

00:10:01 Amaresh

It used to be residential special schools for the Deaf initially. [Tim: mhmm] But after the CRPDs come and the governments are trying to follow the CRPD and they're trying to encourage inclusive of education. So, it's kind of shifting, I would say. [Tim: yeah]

00:10:18 Amaresh

A lot of deaf students, kids going to mainstream schools and then trying to, you know, fit in.

00:10:24 Tim

Do they have interpreters now in those schools, or are they trying to get interpreters?

00:10:29 Amaresh

Yeah, that's a very good question, which probably we need to I'm not really sure how the situation is right now, but we have been trying to encourage the government and the schools to have in the interpreters in classrooms. [Tim: yeah, yeah]

00:10:45 Amaresh

So according to what uh, information I've gathered, I think the situation still needs to be approved.

00:10:54 Amaresh

We still do not have the interpreters in classrooms where deaf children are studying, so we are trying to do that maybe in some schools they may have. I'm not really sure, but I don't think uh, they have interpreters at all. So, the deaf kids are just left alone to try and navigate their way. Yeah.

00:11:14 Tim

Yeah, yeah, I know. In the US, when the mainstream movement came about, it also came about at the same time as laws being passed, saying that they have the right to use sign language in the schools and so forth. And so that's when the movement to increase the population and educate the population of interpreters started. So, I imagine you will start seeing that there as well, I hope.

00:11:42 Amaresh

Uh, very recently, the government had brought out this new national education policy, which is the NEP.

00:11:51 Amaresh

Uh, I think 2 years back they brought out this new policy so... [Tim: mmm]

00:11:55 Amaresh

They have included all of these aspects into that, you know, like sign language has to be used in education settings, stuff like that. [Tim: Yeah] We'll probably catch up and we will probably see more interpreters.

00:12:08 Amaresh

But there's also another argument saying that we need more teachers who are Deaf in the classroom.

00:12:13 Amaresh

So that is also another argument which is going on. So, let's see how it is. So, you should see which what works best for the child, whether to have an interpreter or teacher who's Deaf.

00:12:24 Tim

Yes, there's also been discussion here about keeping the residential schools with deaf teachers with the deaf community involved. So, you're getting that incidental learning with your peers who are also using the same language is better than one or two or five deaf students in a 1,000 hearing students together.

00:12:46 Amaresh

I mean either way, but you go to the mainstream school, in my opinion. Either way, whether you go to a mainstream school or or you are the residential city or the quality of education, quality of teachers has to be good. [Tim: yes]

00:13:01 Amaresh

Whether you go to residential setting you know, or get to the mainstream. So, if you have the necessary support and good quality teachers who know how to teach deaf children. I don't think it should actually matter. You know whether you're going to a mainstream or residential school.

00:13:24 Amaresh

Yeah, there are pros and cons for each.

00:13:27 Tim

Mm-hmm. Exactly.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:13:28 Tim

Thank you to all the hundreds of people following this podcast. If you want to hear from interpreters around the world and get the latest episodes, follow the podcast in your app. Just check out some of the links in the show notes to help you with that. Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:13:45 Tim

So, you've been professionally interpreting for a while, but you've done many other things [Amaresh: hmm] that are of your interests and your talents and your education. You also have two agencies or two businesses tell us a little bit about those.

00:14:00 Amaresh

Currently I run a small firm which is called Let's Sign. I have a deaf person as my business partner, so it's a partnership firm.

00:14:12 Amaresh

Rahul Jain, he's my business partner. So, he's a deaf person himself. So, he brings a lot into the business. So, what we do is we produce content in sign languages for deaf kids like stories, the local stories, Aesop's fables. So, we create content with animations for school child- for deaf kids.

00:14:36 Amaresh

So, that is the one thing that we do.

00:14:39 Tim

How do you distribute that? Is it through a television series or is it online or?

00:14:44 Amaresh

It is on YouTube. Deaf children can get on YouTube and just watch these stories. Yeah, it's a series of stories. So, we have done now some stories on our own and we have also done some stories, uh, partnering with another organization. So, we have a set of stories online which the deaf kids can watch.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:15:07 Amaresh

We also make movies, so sometimes it's uh, but my firm, and sometimes if I get to request personally, I do that too.

00:15:16 Amaresh

So currently we have produced two short films. One is on the linguistic rights of deaf people to use sign language and the other one is on accessibility and how sign language can improve accessibility in, in different areas in public settings.

00:15:36 Amaresh

So, there are two short films that we have made and I'm now actually embarking on another project which is very close to my heart.

00:15:45 Amaresh

My dad wanted to make this movie.

00:15:48 Amaresh

He wanted to title it, “The Smart Deaf Girl”. He wanted the story to be based on deaf woman in India and what she goes through in her life. So, that project is really close to my heart. Now that my dad has passed away so he couldn't complete that project. So, I want to take that up and complete that so… [Tim: mmm]

00:16:08 Amaresh

That’s going to be the next project so.

00:16:10 Amaresh

We are thinking of making a few movies full-length movies too, yeah.

00:16:16 Tim

Mm-hmm. And you're using both Indian Sign Language and English in these films or?

00:16:21 Amaresh

The both the short movies, the, the short films that we have made, it's purely in Indian Sign Language. We have with some characters speaking in the local language that is Hindi. [Tim: mhmm] So, we have that too. So, the movies are well, they have subtitles in English. [Tim: mhmm]

00:16:40 Amaresh

So, people from other countries and other regions they could follow, but it's mainly in Indian Sign language so…

00:16:49 Amaresh

That is our passion and that's what we want to do to make movies in Indian Sign Language, but probably in other sign languages too, if we, you know kind of yeah, go outside India.

00:17:01 Amaresh

Well, that is a very passionate thing that we that personally I want to. So, I'm a very creative person. I love working with videos and audio and stuff like that, so.

00:17:12 Tim

The shorts and the movies. What audiences were they for, and how did you distribute them? Or how will you?

00:17:19 Amaresh

Well, those two short films, it so happened there was a situation which arriv-, which arose in India.

00:17:27 Amaresh

So we have this Indian Sign Language Research and Training Center, which has been set up by the government. [Tim: mhmm]

00:17:36 Amaresh

So, this particular center was initially under a huge university.

00:17:41 Amaresh

It was known as the Indira Gandhi National Open University, initially so it was operating under it and…

00:17:47 Amaresh

They were offering a few courses, bachelor's course, and some other courses what deaf students. And later on there were some issues with that university. So, they had to separate, they had to divorce from the university. The government wanted to, you know, like have the center under another institute, a national institute of caring for handicapped. They wanted to have that under there.  [Tim: mhmm] But the deaf community did not want that to happen.

00:18:18 Amaresh

Because the National Institute was mainly, you know, focusing on the medical aspect of deafness and not on the linguistic, and the language. So,im: mhmm] So they feel that it was in the right place for that center.

00:18:30 Amaresh

So, they, they were trying to advocate, and they had a lot of protests against the government to have that under the center. So, I had received requests from Deaf community, you know, like how to convince, you know, like how we can put this point across. So, I suggested that we can probably do a film…

00:18:51 Amaresh

Uh, very short public interest videos [Tim: mhmm] and probably 15 to 20 second videos clips, [Tim: mhmm] that we can actually put it on the television, the national television, so we can garner support from the… not only from the deaf community, but from also from the hearing community to understand that this center needs to be linguistic.

00:19:14 Amaresh

So, when we were having this discussions, when we started, and when we embarked on the project, it so happened that at that point of time under a lot of pressure, we were still working with deaf community was still fighting for that.

00:19:25 Amaresh

And the government agreed, and they set it up as a, a separate institute, [Tim: wow] and it was all done. So there was no necessity for us to have this.

00:19:36 Amaresh

So, it stalled at that point of time, but the idea was so nice that a few of them, that they decided that let's not stop with this. Let's try and do something that I suggested, “Well, we don't need very short clips.” Yeah. So, what we could do is we could probably make a short film. [Tim: mhmm]

00:19:56 Amaresh

You know, well, this could be used as an advocacy tool to inform people or organizations and from government.

00:20:05 Amaresh

Not only in India, but anywhere else in the world, they can do that and they can have this advocacy tool. So that was the main reason that we had actually produced these films and it was supported by again it was supported by CBM International. They had supported this financially where we were able to make it.

00:20:25 Amaresh

The whole team was Deaf. [Tim: mhmm]

00:20:27 Amaresh

So, editing, everything was done by deaf people.

00:20:31 Amaresh

The only other person, uh, hearing person on the team was the person who's filming the videographer, yeah. [Tim: yeah]

00:20:39 Amaresh

So, I needed a professional person who only had experience so that when I give him the angles then he knows what to do when… with the lightings and all that. [Tim: yeah, yeah] So, after that the whole team was Deaf. So, that was a very interesting project.

00:20:56 Amaresh

And that was my first time that, movie making. It was really a huge success. Maybe I can give you the links and maybe you can have the links in your description. [Tim: yeah]

00:21:07 Amaresh

So, it started off like that.

00:21:08 Amaresh

So now we're thinking of making full length movies, yeah.

00:21:11 Tim

Nice. Is this nonprofit or how are you creating funding?

00:21:16 Amaresh

Well, this firm is completely for profit. It's not a nonprofit organization, it's completely a business enterprise. So it is for profit, definitely. [Tim: mhmm]

00:21:25 Amaresh

So yeah, so we produce content, we sell the content. So, if an organization wants to use this kind of content, that partner with us and they pay us...

00:21:33 Amaresh

…and probably if they want to have an event for free or if they want to sell the content, it's up to them. [Tim: yeah] So, the content that we produce ourselves that is definitely on YouTube and that is for a price. We also do a lot of translation services, [Tim: mhmm] in terms of translating documents into sign languages.

00:21:54 Amaresh

Uh, we do that for Indian Sign Language and in International Sign as well.

00:21:58 Amaresh

And we’ve embarked on the new project through this firm. So, we want to do a lot of linguistic research into Indian Sign Language to try and produce more resources, for Indian Sign Language, in Indian Sign Language. So, we're trying to, you know, this is mainly for the deaf community to understand their language better. [Tim: mhmm]

00:22:19 Amaresh

And for interpreters who are proceeding the interpreting course. So, a lot of linguistic aspects you want to, you know, introduce. [Tim: yeah]

00:22:29 Amaresh

So we were, we were trying to embark on that project. So that kind of… that will be done this year.

00:22:35 Amaresh

We are also giving a lot of training in sign languages, so my business partner Rahul Jain is a certified Indian Sign language trainer. So, we do that, and we also employ other deaf people in terms of editing and video filming and stuff like that. So, our whole team is Deaf.

00:22:55 Amaresh

Uh, So, I'm only hearing person on that team. So. So I just, I'm, I'm just there for communication because the day-to-day communication to help them with the project and the timeline and stuff. So, most of the work is done by the deaf people themselves.

00:23:10 Amaresh

So, that is one aspect. And there also is another aspect. Since I love travelling and Rahul also loves traveling so, we have it's a kind of expedition kind of thing. So, we offer travel experiences in India for international deaf community.

00:23:29 Amaresh

Deaf people from other parts of the country, I mean, sorry, other parts of the world they would like to visit India and get a feel of and experience India. [Tim: yeah]

00:23:40 Amaresh

We offer interpretation services. We offer a guide, and we arrange for everything, the whole tour.

00:23:47 Amaresh

So deaf people when they come, they actually can experience India as such.

00:23:50 Amaresh

Uh, I could give an example in the month of August, end of July, August we are organizing a motorcycle expedition to north most part of India.

00:24:00 Amaresh

The Kashmir Ladakh side with the Himalayas. So, it's a very beautiful place. So, it's going to be a two-week expedition, motorcycle expedition. So, we are getting some people from France and other parts of Europe and around 20 people, they will come here to India. So, we're gonna have a huge motorcycle expedition in July, August. So, anybody listening to this podcast would like to join. They're most welcome. [Tim chuckles]

00:24:29 Tim

So, are hearing interpreters also invited or only Deaf?

00:24:34 Amaresh

Everyone is invited. Everyone is invited so…

00:24:38 Amaresh

Yeah. So, the main purpose, you know, like we like to have hearing people also. We like to include hearing people also in this, in this travels and tours so that they could also have a feel, you know, like they could also understand Deaf community better. [Tim: mhmm, yeah]

00:24:52 Amaresh

Learn how to communicate, learn a little bit of sign language. And make friends with the deaf people. So, we always encourage hearing people if they like to join. Interpreters, definitely yes.

00:25:02 Tim

And is this a separate firm or is it under Let's Sign?

00:25:06 Amaresh

Now that is under, Let's Sign so…

00:25:07 Amaresh

It’s kind of branched out. So…

00:25:10 Amaresh

It's always been a passion, you know, travel. So, I travel a lot, so yeah.

00:25:16 Tim

Yeah, yeah, me too. Definitely. So, are these planned tours or are they customized to the group?

00:25:23 Amaresh

Now we've always try and customize according to the preference of the group. You know, like they asked the group. What would they like to experience? Where would they like to go? We give them options that they can choose. [Tim: mhmm]

00:25:36 Amaresh

Depends, you know like within the time frame they have, how many days they're going to visit and… [Tim: mhmm]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:25:47 Tim

OK, so who wants to join me in India? We can do a little travel, a little community connection. I know some of you are actually thinking about it, thinking about gathering your deaf friends, your interpreter friends and going to India for a wonderful experience.

00:26:07 Tim

This is what the profession is all about. Learning from others, learning about their cultures, their food, where they live. As interpreters, we need to recognize that regularly. It is part of our profession. It is what makes it attractive to many people. The language, the cultures, the new people.

00:26:27 Tim

But yes, as Amaresh said, we need to also have good working conditions, which includes a decent living wage and all of that comes from awareness, and it's all connected in little steps at a time. The deaf community shows who they are and informs everyone of what is needed.

00:26:52 Tim

And in India, we see the steps that have been made. First, videos and conversations about creating a sign language dictionary showing proof that it's a real language. Using that to develop a program for interpreters.

00:27:12 Tim

Using videos to create awareness of the needs of the deaf community and coming to together as people teaching others about themselves, their culture, their language and where they live, each of these steps helps build a foundation to make the sign language interpreting profession attractive to the next generation.

00:27:35 Tim

Because we want that generation to be experienced and a high level of linguistic maturity to handle what it means to be a sign language interpreter.

00:27:47 Tim

And lastly, let's talk a little bit about the beginning of Amarachi's discussion with us today. He felt the frustration that all children have with his parents.

00:28:00 Tim

Every child experiences frustration with their parents who don't understand something that the parents have not experienced haven’t seen, haven't heard about. But with Amaresh…

00:28:11 Tim

It had that extra layer of the communication barrier, the information access barriers, especially when he was in the middle of having to interpret the adult world when already knowing the basic information himself. As interpreters, we feel that frustration sometimes when we're interpreting for certain clients, hearing and Deaf.

00:28:35 Tim

But unlike Amaresh, we need not to be naughty interpreters or hang out with the wrong crowd.

00:28:43 Tim

We just need to remember that not everyone is growing up the same way we are. They don't have the information, the same information that we have.

00:28:54 Tim

So, I look forward to the episode next week as we continue our conversation with Amaresh.

00:29:01 Tim

Until then, keep calm, keep…

00:29:03 Tim

…being the attractive interpreter you are.

00:29:06 Tim

 I'll see you next week. Take care now

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:29:46]