IW 90: Interview Nives Gotovac Part 4: Practical Problem-Solving of a Practice-Searcher

"Re-search" means to search again for that which has been searched for. Right?

In part 4 Nives Gotovac describes her recent research and how it contributed to the development of the sign language interpreter profession in Croatia. She details some of the results, what surprised her and what she concluded from these results.

Learn how you too can benefit from such research.

Transcript

IW 90: Interview Nives Gotovac Part 4: Practical Problem-Solving of a Practice-Searcher

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go tointerpretersworkshop.com

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

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00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by Henning Mankell, Swedish author. “Many people make the mistake of confusing information with knowledge. They are not the same. Knowledge involves the interpretation of information. Knowledge involves listening.”

00:00:56 Tim

In this last part of our conversation with Nives Gotovac Croatian Sign Language interpreter, we learned a little bit more of her research and how it benefits the Croatian Sign language interpreting profession. She gives us a little bit of advice on how we too, as practitioners of sign language interpreting can help in our own communities. Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:28 Tim

Let's go back to your research that you did with EUMASLI. [Nives: mhmm]

00:01:33 Tim

What was the focus of your research?

00:01:35 Nives

Yeah, so EUMASLI is actually encouraging all of us who all the students involved in the program to think about contributing to our communities, to our countries. [Tim: mhmm] And to do some things that are vital or needed in, in our areas, or regions, countries, whatever you, you choose.

00:02:01 Nives

So, I decided to… my topic was the profile of the employed Croatian sign language interpreter because I wanted to know where we are standing now. So, what's the point that we are starting from now. [Tim: mhmm] And we are actually starting from, from a profile of…

00:02:21 Nives

40 ish - old female who has caring responsibilities meaning having children, meaning that she has to balance work and life, [Tim: mhmm] meaning that she has around 10 years of interpreting experience, [Tim: mhmm] interpreting mostly in social welfare centers, medical settings and…

00:02:42 Nives

I would say work-related meetings [Tim: mhmm] and settings.

00:02:49 Nives

Also I was interested in knowing…

00:02:54 Nives

How many interpreters actually that… That's the thing that I kind of missed in my research because of ethical constraints. [Tim: mhmm] But I wanted to find out how many interpreters are working part time in schools, part time in the associations, that I kind of have failed because I couldn't directly ask the question. But in some from some answers I could conclude that there are a certain number of interpreters working in educational settings and also in, in deaf associations or in community interpreting. [Tim: mhmm]

00:03:24 Nives

And it was actually interesting to have accidental learning when I asked the people about their interpreting education that they had. [Tim: mhmm]

00:03:35 Nives

And people were replying about their language level or language - education, language - knowledge. [Tim: mhmm] They mentioned that they went to some courses that they went to some semesters where that's actually showed me that people are still not fully in understanding what's interpreting and what's knowing the language. [Tim: yeah]

00:03:58 Nives

Also, I expected much more CODAs, but it was kind of a 50/50. It was I think 26 CODAs, eh, 27 CODAs, and 26 people that are… They don't have any connection with the deaf community. [Tim: mhmm] It was interesting. The average Croatian sign language interpreter has a four-year high school. [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:21 Nives

And that was, I thought, that it's going to be like more than like 80%, but it turned out that there are almost the same number of people who have their bachelor or master’s or even PhDs. [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:35 Nives

Almost the same number, so it was kind of a funny, funny for me to, to, to understand that because until my research I thought that people were CODAs having like 4-year high school education, even though some of them have three-year high school education. [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:53 Nives

And that I will not find any of… or maybe there will be a few people that have university level degree. [Tim: mhmm] That was interesting and also interesting for me was that out of those people who had any degree, none of them finished any interpreting program [Tim: mhmm] like in any language because there is no sign language education in Croa-, I mean at the university level or in interpreting program. [Tim: yeah] So that was interesting. And also, since we tend to use three different terms in Croatia about interpreter’s job. [Tim: mhmm]

00:05:31 Nives

So, I intendedly left the Croatian terms.

00:05:35 Nives

So, this “communication intermediary” interpreter, (and you would understand in Czech and in Croatian we have kind of a similar thing) so, tumač [Tim: mhmm] and prevoditelj [Tim: mhmm]. So, when we discuss about spoken language interpreters, we say interpreter and in Croatian that's prevoditelj. But when you discuss in sign language community, they usually use the word tumač, but the thing with that term is even when people were trying to define it or those three terms…

00:06:06 Nives

Is that it can be understood in like a few, few different ways. One understanding is people, eh, interpreters working in courts. [Tim: yeah]

00:06:16 Nives

So, we are fine with that. But the other thing is the understanding of a person who is explaining something to another person. [Tim: mhmm] And that's the thing that we would like to avoid.

00:06:27 Nives

At least I would like to avoid in my work. [Tim chuckling] I don't think that it's my job to explain anything to anyone. I think that I'm interpreting [Tim: yeah] even though that I do…

00:06:38 Nives

…include in some of my interpretation explanations about some terms, but that's still interpreting [Tim: mhmm] even though it's like said in different words. [Tim: yeah] And it was funny to, to see that people decided with the term prevoditelj eh, the interpreter, the one that's, that's used in spoken language community. [Tim: hmm] 

00:06:58 Nives

And that's a good thing to know. Even though most of those things we did know where, where we are starting from. [Tim: mhmm] But for me it's a good thing to know that actually the pool of interpreters is…

00:07:09 Nives

…kind of, uh, spreading to people that aren't involved in deaf community that started learning that are interested in Croatian sign language and interpreting after they have graduated from university. That's a good thing. [Tim: mhmm] And I think that we should build up from there.

00:07:26 Nives

So, have university level program, have well frequent at, at least if not regular education, or workshops, [Tim: mhmm] or whatever. Well, whatever fits in this continuous professional development.

00:07:43 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

00:07:44 Nives

Yeah. So.

00:07:46 Nives

Yeah, that was, that was my, that was my research, and it was really interesting to do it because EUMASLI is all about, I mean, it's a program for sign language interpreters, but it kind of, uh, draws you more to, to be (it’s popular to say nowadays) practice searcher. So, you're working as a researcher and practicing what you are researching. [Tim: mhmm]

00:08:05 Nives

And I think that this academic parts in my, in my journey is kind of an interesting, interesting build up to everything that I was doing until now, and I still think that I have much more to, to work on. [Tim: mhmm] But it was interesting to, to make the research to see and to interview my colleagues even though it was just a questionnaire sent online. 

00:08:30 Nives

But you know, collecting the data, thinking about it, making some conclusions, thinking about the future, joining some recommendations. So yeah. And interesting process definitely. [Tim: yeah]

00:08:43 Tim

So, your respondents said we like to use the term, the same term that the spoken language interpreters use for us. Do they add sign language interpreter to that or just interpreter?

00:08:56 Nives

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [Tim: OK] Actually, the, the question was Croatian sign language interpreter (prevoditelj znakovnog jezika) or, or tumač, because well…

00:09:06 Tim

I see.

00:09:09 Nives

…in the past 10 or so years… [Tim: mhmm]

00:09:13 Nives

We kind of got used to using tumač and prevoditelj as a, as a one, one term actually like [Tim: Yeah, synonyms] having… Yeah as a synonyms, but in a way to put like tumač then slash prevoditelj, meaning [Tim: ahh] that we are working also in courts that we're working also in community. [Tim: hmm, mhmm]

00:09:31 Nives

But I think that the, the thing is, especially when you when you have associations that expect interpreters to work a lot of different jobs…

00:09:40 Nives

Then you also expect from the interpreter to explain certain things to you, and then by, by explaining things, maybe you will, maybe unintentionally, but sometimes even intentionally. You will kind of afford them to have the same opinion as you have, [Tim: mhmm] and maybe that's a good thing sometimes. But we can't argue…

00:10:00 Nives

…that's the thing all, all the times and for everyone. [Tim: yeah] So, I think we should be a little bit cautious about this ambiguity in, in the, in that, in that term. [Tim: yeah] And still that there are a certain, a certain misunderstanding, or not fully clear understanding what those three terms should mean and what are the roles of those people. [Tim: mhmm] So, I think that education will help with that.

00:10:28 Tim

Yeah, and it's always hard to even, we will never explain to people who are not interpreters or familiar with the deaf community or sign language. It's going to be hard for them to ever learn what it really means and what we do or even, you know, care since it's not part of their lives, but it's best, like you said, for us to have a common standard in [Nives: mhmm] our vocabulary together, and that's a good stepping point from your research. That's nice.

00:10:59 Nives

Yeah. And I think that when we present ourselves in a professional way…

00:11:04 Nives

Then also people will change the way how they see us as professionals or as a like a charity service, [Tim: exactly] yeah.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:11:13 Tim

I had the most downloads ever in January 2024. Thank you. If you want to receive the latest episodes, click subscribe or follow to this podcast and tell a friend thank you. Let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:11:31 Tim

For those researchers out there in communities where a lot of the information is unknown right now, or you're they're at a stage where they're trying to go to the next level of development.

00:11:43 Tim

If they wanted to try to figure out the same things you figured out with your research what warnings or advice would you give them at this point that you wish you would have done differently?

00:11:56 Nives

Well, every research has some limitations as we know.

00:12:01 Nives

So, I'm not sure if I'm the best person to ask about, [laughs] about this academic part of the research, because I'm, as I said, I just started with my, my research journey. [Tim: mhmm] But I know that sometimes well again, it depends.

00:12:21 Nives

So, who’s funding, who's funding the, the research? Is it an institution? Do they have their ethical guidelines? You should…

00:12:29 Nives

…that you should follow, or do you have like a full freedom to do however you like to, to adjust your, your interview or… Now after, after my research I kind of think that maybe if I did it as not as a questionnaire, if I change the methodology.

00:12:49 Nives

If I use the focus groups, [Tim: mhmm] maybe it would give me more replies to some questions that I wasn't sure people understood fully. [Tim: mhmm] For example, I thought that if I asked my participants if you are a part of interpreters’ association or if you're a part, if you are a part of Deaf association or Deafblind Association that ,that's kind of, kind of a straightforward question.

00:13:15 Nives

And what I got was a lot of mixed replies and in the end, I couldn't use that. Because I wasn't, I wasn't sure if people thought that if they work for the Deaf Association, that they're members. [Tim: ahh] So, maybe the membership thing is not that clear. And I remember when I started working…

00:13:36 Nives

I was working for interpreters’ associations that I wasn't a member of. When I started working, at that point it, it wasn't clear for me. I thought it's.. if I'm an employee then I'm definitely a member. You know, I'm an interpreter, and, and I'm working for interpreter association, so maybe that question would be easily changed or asked differently if, if it was a focus group or if I understood that people are not that clear what I was aiming for.

00:14:06 Nives

So, I'm not sure if I can, if I can have like a recipe of recommendations, [Tim chuckling] what to do and what not to do, but what helped me the most was reading a lot of different research, getting to know methodology of the research. [Tim: mhmm]

00:14:21 Nives

So, that's an important thing and having a really good mentors, that's the utmost thing. [Tim laughing] Because they are more experienced, they've done it multiple times and they can guide you even when you think that you are stuck with some things that's I mean…

00:14:40 Nives

I mean, I did this kind of a research for the first time in my life, so I really needed some, someone experienced [Tim: mhmm] and thank you, Lisa, again, for all the extra hours with me [both chucklingand Annalise and Sana. Because yeah, that, that, that, that's the thing. You're, you're just, you know, jumping into something that you've never done. [Tim: mhmm]

00:15:01 Nives

And you need experienced researchers to help you along the way.

00:15:06 Tim

That sounds like good advice to me.

00:15:08 Nives

At least it's some-, it's something. [chuckling]

00:15:10 Tim

That 23-year-old out there who's just starting, it's great advice.

00:15:15 Nives

And she wouldn't take it. Trust me. [both laughing]

00:15:18 Tim

She wouldn't take it anyway, but she'll remember it when she's 43. [Nives chuckling: Yes. That’s for sure.]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

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00:15:30 Tim

If you didn't understand that last joke, go back to the beginning of this interview and keep listening. So, when's the interview with Nives Gotovac's from Croatia.

00:15:41 Tim

What can we take away from this interview? Many things in this episode, we can see how we can benefit our own communities, our country, our fellow interpreters, by just asking them. For Nives, she asked about who are the sign language interpreters in Croatia.

00:16:04 Tim

For me, she found out a lot of interesting things. One, even though they do not have a university degree for sign language interpreters, half of the interpreters working have other degrees. They are educated in other fields. This is a good thing, the more knowledge we have of the world of different fields, the better interpreters we can be.

00:16:29 Tim

And I thought it was quite interesting to find out what do interpreters think of themselves. How do they define interpreter?

00:16:38 Tim

Of course, in the Croatian language and in the system, they have the three working words or vocabulary for interpreter, and they have to navigate through that to find out exactly what it means, not only to them but to the communities that they serve, which is one benefit of having an educational system ready or program rather for sign language interpreters to help the terminology become standard and understood by all practitioners as well as the communities.

00:17:13 Tim

For me, such a study focusing on something that will benefit the profession directly, almost immediately is the best kind of research to help the development of the profession.

00:17:29 Tim

Because with this type of research, you're gathering the information and finding out where everyone is at this point in time, because if you want to develop from where you are, you need to know where you are.

00:17:43 Tim

Just like a teacher does when asking students specific questions to understand how much knowledge and skill and expertise the students have in order to know where to start the lesson. Where do you build your curriculum for those students? Do you start here at a low level, at a medium level, at a high level?

00:18:06 Tim

Because if the students are at level A and you want to jump to level D, they have a hard time connecting the dots between topic and topic.

00:18:17 Tim

So, building on what you have now allows you to have the foundation for a better future for the profession. So, whether you know what to research next or whether you're confused about research, I suggest you follow the podcast or subscribe to the podcast, because then…

00:18:38 Tim

You can keep calm, keep interpreting. I'll see you next week.

00:18:44 Tim

Take care now.

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