IW 85: InterpreTips: Who, Whom, Whatchamacallit?

What's his face! uh... Who you gonna call?!

The InterpreTips today are all about name signs. What are they? How are they used? What do we do with them in our interpretation?

Name signs can be one of those hard concepts to interpret in a nice way. We'll discuss the awkwardness of it and figure out ways to improve.

Oddly enough this is one of the many elements of interpreting that Marty Taylor discusses in her "Blue books", Interpreting Skills: ASL to English.

Until next time...

Transcript

IW 85: InterpreTips:Who, Whom, Whatchamacallit?

Support the Podcast! 

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02 Tim

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com 

00:00:28 Tim

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day, I have two. The first quote from Confucius…

00:00:41 Tim

“If names are not correct, language will not be in accordance with the truth of things.”

00:00:49 Tim

And the second quote by WH Auden English born American poet of the 20th century.

00:00:57 Tim

“Proper names are poetry in the raw. Like all poetry, they are untranslatable.”

00:01:06 Tim

Well, for interpreters, these two quotes truly confuse us when it comes to interpreting names in today's InterpreTips, I start the discussion for us about names, NAME SIGNS, in signed languages.

00:01:23 Tim

We have name signs, and we have names that we don't know how to pronounce. Hmmf. Some things we have to think about in today's InterpreTips, names, naming things, pronouns, uuhh. They're all “UNtranslatable”.

00:01:41 Tim

Are they [stutters the word with difficulty-for humor] uninterprete-, interpreteta-, interpretididabl-able? Let's take a look. Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:54 Tim

As sign language interpreters as interpreters, we know that there are some things that just cannot be interpreted well, that just don't have an equivalent from the source to the target, from the speaker to the listener. Many things such as humor from one culture to another culture, or from one language to another language. These things are obvious to us.

00:02:20 Tim

Yes, but then there are things about the language itself, the structure of the language that just does not have an equivalent in the other language. And one of those for signed languages is something we call name signs or sign name.

00:02:37 Tim

In some signed languages name signs are represented by a letter of the alphabet, which is then located somewhere on the body or moved in a certain way to indicate this person.

00:02:51 Tim

One or it represents a family name that is represented by a location of the sign and has been passed down through the generations. There are some signed languages that have actual signs for specific names in that culture. Usually it has to do with a connection to a religious list of names.

00:03:15 Tim

But many times, there are name signs that are created for that individual that reflect who that individual is by their hobbies or physical characteristics, or even the habits that they might have. And many times, we say, well, I need to know their name. Well, they've just given you that person’s name in that language.

00:03:38 Tim

Now the representation of that name in the spoken language may be spelled out a certain way in the usual way that name signs are given which helps interpreters a whole lot…

00:03:52 Tim

Is that a speaker will finger spell the name of this person and then add their name, sign so that we know in the rest of this conversation when they use this name sign. We're talking about this person who's represented by this spelled name.

00:04:11 Tim

But in spoken languages, there really isn't an equivalent of this structure. A spelled name and the name represented by something else. It falls onto us to take that responsibility of somehow interpreting what was meant.

00:04:31 Tim

Unfortunately, many of us still make mistakes when doing this with name signs, and there are usually four errors that tend to happen in our interpretations. One is explaining. Two actually say the wrong name or three, we replace the name sign with a generic marker such as this person, or we mistake the name sign for an actual sign of a different concept. So, let's take a look at how we interpret name signs.

00:05:09 Tim

And we can look at them through the errors that I just mentioned and talk a little bit about how we can improve our interpretations.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:05:22 Tim

A common interpretation of name signs is when the interpreter starts to literally interpret what has been said, such as saying the spelled name and then saying, “…and their name sign is this represented by a “C” handshape touching their ear or “…and their name in my signed language is like this” and the interpreter may point to the name being signed so that the hearing person can see what it looks like.

00:05:55 Tim

This is a common interpretation, but it's also a common mistake that we shouldn't be doing in most instances. Now, if the deaf person has a relationship with those they're speaking with, and they are explaining what a name sign is, or they're explaining how to sign this person's name…

00:06:16 Tim

Then it's entirely appropriate, and that is the goal of that interaction. However, usually we are interpreting the literal translation rather than the meaning of the expression.

00:06:29 Tim

In most instances we should just say the name and or the appropriate pronoun for that person, because the name sign is actually an aid for us as interpreters to know who the speaker is referring to as they go along in the conversation.

00:06:49 Tim

Because most of the time they won't repeat the spelled name and the name sign again in that dialogue.

00:06:57 Tim

One thing we have to consider when using the name signs, we have to think about the register. Think about where we are and who we're interacting with because many times name signs are used for that individual with their first name an informal casual.

00:07:17 Tim

Way of interacting, but we should match the register for that situation.

00:07:23 Tim

We might see a sign that is just for David.

00:07:28 Tim

But we need to know is it “David” or is it “Mr. so and so” or is it “Sir so and so”? Or is it “Dave”? Or is it “Doctor”, “Doctor so and so”?

00:07:42 Tim

For example, if we were discussing someone named Isaac Newton.

00:07:47 Tim

Are we in a formal setting at a scientific lecture, and should we say “Sir Isaac Newton”, or should we just say “Isaac”, “Ike”, “Isa Newton”? “Yo, Sir Newty” so many ways we can say the name sign. We have to take into consideration...

00:08:07 Tim

The gravity of this interaction, because what it comes down to is who is there and how they relate to the client. If it's an Apple Convention, and Sir Isaac Newton is there, hmm. Wait a minute, Apple? Down, up, huh? [more humor tried]

00:08:25 Tim

So, we need to think of the people involved when we're using the appropriate spoken language equivalent for a person's name, rather than describing what the sign name looks like. It's funny because we don't do that with other signs.

00:08:42 Tim

When people do the sign for Paris we don't say, “Ohh. And I'm from Paris and this is how the city is represented in my language.” We don't do that. It's interesting how we do it for name signs. Hmm.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:09:02 Tim

The next error would be when the interpretation has the wrong name, similar to what I just said. We might use the wrong nickname or the inappropriate register for that name rather than David. We would say, Dave.

00:09:19 Tim

But we may also use the wrong name entirely. We might say Dalton instead of David.

00:09:27 Tim

We might confuse two famous name signs that are similar or perhaps placed on the body at the same location. It's similar to the signs used for different countries. We might misspeak and say the wrong country when the signs are very similar, or perhaps have the same movement.

00:09:49 Tim

As an interpreter, we need to add information that was not in the source expression to make the message in the target language appropriate. Because when we have things that are not able to be interpreted directly, we must interpret them in the appropriate way according to the languages.

00:10:10 Tim

So here we are adding information such as “Mr.” or bringing it down from the formal to the casual register. It's always more appropriate to give the concept in the target language, appropriately.

00:10:28 Tim

And now I've said appropriate way too many times and it sounds odd, hmm. Is that appropriate? Maybe it's misappropriation of the word appropriate. I need a name sign for appropriate, so it looks better. But this is audio. [sighs]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:10:47 Tim

Hey, could you do me a favor? If you've enjoyed any of my episodes, please consider sharing it with a friend. Take a moment to send a recommendation of this podcast to your friends and colleagues. It's the one way we can spread these voices further, and if you also support the idea of recording the many interpreting voices for posterity, please consider a financial donation. Click on the links in the show notes to support this show.

00:11:14 Tim

It allows me to have the technical equipment and the software to keep the podcast going. Thank you very much. Let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:11:25 Tim

Now this next error may not be considered an error, but rather a strategy. Many times, when we do not catch the name that is represented by the name sign, we need to use some kind of strategy until we can get clarification to make the interpretation clear, even though it's not an equivalent interpretation.

00:11:50 Tim

So many times, we may miss the name and use a generic term: this person, this man, this friend, this colleague…

00:12:01 Tim

…even though this is not what has actually been expressed.

00:12:06 Tim

So, it is an error.

00:12:09 Tim

But I think it's also a good strategy that we can use while we try to ask for clarification from the speaker as to who they're representing with this name sign.

00:12:22 Tim

When we're giving ourselves enough time for clarification of who they are representing with this name sign.

00:12:29 Tim

And the last error that the interpretation might have, is when we just use the wrong word, or we mistake the name sign for a sign. Whether we think it is an actual sign or a descriptive sign an adjective, as it were or an adverb.

00:12:50 Tim

So, we mistakenly interpret it as something completely different. Many times, when we miss what the name sign is representing, whether it's a person or a city. As I mentioned before, we still get all of the concepts that were expressed in this sentence, but what the interpretation gives is less clarity, because the listener does not know who or what was doing the action.

00:13:23 Tim

Or they don't understand where or what, or who this was happening to. Each of these errors in interpretation need to be addressed. We need to work on this.

00:13:35 Tim

In order to improve the interpretations that we give.

00:13:41 Tim

So, say we are able to get clarification on who or what the name sign represents.

00:13:49 Tim

Then we have the problem, the challenge, the responsibility to pronounce, that's right, to pronounce the name correctly.

00:13:59 Tim

How do we do that if it's not a name that we're familiar with.

00:14:04 Tim

When these names are names from other countries, languages or just spelled in such a way that we are not familiar with. In fact, there are some people who pronounce their name differently than what is commonly used for that spelling. This is where preparation and planning can help, but not always solve this problem.

00:14:28 Tim

Many times, I have been known to spell the name for those listening, especially if I know that those listening know this person because they understand how it might be difficult to pronounce the name correctly if you don't know this person. And I'm being respectful to ask how to pronounce it rather than disrespecting in a mispronunciation.

00:14:53 Tim

In our example, Sir Isaac Newton, Isaac has two “a”s. If I wasn't familiar with the name Isaac, I might say I-zah-k. Or is it Eh-zah-k? How do you pronounce it? If you don't know that language? Is it Newtone? Nuuu, Nehuu?

00:15:12 Tim

Neeuuton, Newtone? I'm the first to admit that English has some very strange spelling and rules for pronunciation.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC] [ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:15:27 Tim

So, when we are interpreting the commonly used name signs, we need to remember that it's part of the language and element that is used, that is not part of the spoken language. It's one of those things that we don't need to actually interpret directly. They are merely telling you someone’s name.

00:15:48 Tim

So, we should use the name that would be used in the target language. We need to avoid describing the name sign or saying, “this is how their name is represented in…” stop saying that.

00:16:02 Tim

It's very similar to saying “interpreter error”. At one time the phrase “interpreter error” sounded very professional. It's reminding people that I am an interpreter, and this is a terminology we use. It sounded as though I am very neutral. I am not a part of this.

00:16:22 Tim

I am the interpreter, and this is what the interpreter did. There was an error. It's informing everyone what this neutral body has done, sounding very professional.

00:16:34 Tim

With experience we have learned that it doesn't sound professional. It sounds as though we're talking about someone other than ourselves. It sounds awkward that we're using the third person. We need to remember the strategies that we use to finish the sentence clearly and ask specifically, who the name sign represents and add that information appropriately in the target language.

00:17:03 Tim

When we find that we've used the wrong name, we need to correct it.

00:17:07 Tim

When we see a name sign, perhaps we can spell that name back to the speaker for clarification that we are using the correct corresponding name using our understanding and comprehension of the situation and the dialogue that has come before should help us determine whether we are using the wrong name or the wrong word for a name sign.

00:17:34 Tim

Think of those strategies the next time you are confronted with a name sign. Now this episode has been much longer than we've ever needed to use when we've encountered a name sign in our interpretations, we have split seconds to determine what to use, what to say.

00:17:54 Tim

We can apply this knowledge of the fact that the languages are so different that sometimes there's not an equivalent for an interpretation, but there is an appropriate interpretation for the concept that they are using, and we don't have to explain the differences in the languages or how something is expressed differently in that language, unless that is part of the interaction.

00:18:22 Tim

So, the next time you see a name sign used while working and you see that it's untranslatable, uninterpreti- interpretitididable, you should just… keep calm.

00:18:36 Tim

Keep appropriately interpreting. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:19:18]