IW 79: Interview Marty Taylor Part 1: We've Come a Long Way Baby!

Life is full of adventures. Sometimes things just happen, and it's FUN!

Our guest is Dr Marty Taylor, an American-Canadian sign language interpreter. She was one of the first generation of academically-trained ASL/English interpreters as the U.S. transitioned from only CODA-generation of interpreters during the nation-wide establishment of interpreter education.

We learn how her journey started and evolved into her professional career and about those who supported her way.

Listen to this and the following episodes to learn more of her story, working conditions in the US, Canada, and about her research detailing sign language interpreting skills, and so much more.

Transcript

IW 79: Interview Marty Taylor Part 1: We’ve Come a Long Way, Baby!

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS]

00:00:02

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go to interpretersworkshop.com

00:00:28

Let's start talking... interpreting.

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quote of the day by Loretta Lynn, American country singer in her song of 1969.

00:00:44 Tim

“We've come a long way, baby.”

00:00:46 Tim

However, the slogan “you've come a long way, baby” was a slogan by a cigarette company at that time.

00:00:54 Tim

And this phrase became a slogan that matched the spirit of the women's rights movement during the 60s, the 1960s. It is now a phrase often used in American culture to denote the progress that has been made after a journey of struggles and overcoming obstacles.

00:01:15 Tim

It also commemorates those who have walked the journey before us and made the sacrifices for us.

00:01:23 Tim

In today's episode, I speak with one who went through this journey from the early days of the interpreting profession in the US.

00:01:32 Tim

She shares with us her struggles, how the profession developed over the years and where we are today. I am proud to have my former professor with us on the podcast. It's good to hear from those who came before us.

00:01:49 Tim

Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:55 Tim

Our guest today has been a signed language interpreter for over 35 years. She is nationally certified in both Canada and the United States. Throughout her career, she has been an educator and author, a publisher, a researcher, and a consultant.

00:02:12 Tim

In 1993, she founded the company Interpreting Consolidated with the main goal of producing books and videos to enhance the quality of American Sign Language, English interpretation at the University of Alberta, she began her doctorate researching the question what are the differences between novice and expert interpretations?

00:02:37 Tim

And based on that research, she published her first book, entitled Interpretation Skills: English to American Sign Language and subsequently the companion book Interpretation Skills: American Sign Language to English.

00:02:54 Tim

Our guest has contributed to our sign language interpreting field for many years, and she brings to us today her experience, her knowledge and her warmth. Please welcome to the podcast Dr Marty Taylor. Welcome, Marty.

00:03:10 Marty

Thank you so much, Tim. What a nice introduction.

00:03:14 Tim

It's been over 35 years, but take us back to the beginning. When you first were motivated to become a sign language interpreter, what did it look like, and why did you decide to do this?

00:03:30 Marty

All by happenstance, I would say. [Tim: hmm] I was born and raised in Seattle, WA in the States and didn't know anything about sign language. But when I rode a bus, a public bus there was a deaf girl who went to a nearby school. [Tim: hmm]

00:03:54 Marty

And she taught me all the naughty signs, [Tim laughing] all the bad signs that one shouldn't know as their first signs. [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:04 Marty

But she and I got along quite well going back and forth from schools. We'd some- sometimes be on the same bus. That's where I picked up some sign language. And as it happened we had sign language classes one night a week, but I was too young…[Tim: ahh]

00:04:25 Marty

…to take those classes because I was still in high school, so I was able to take it if my mother would join me, I had have an adult present.

00:04:38 Tim

[chuckling] Yes, because American Sign Language is so, so detrimental to children.

00:04:42 Marty

[laughing] Sooo detrimental. [Tim: Wow] Yeah. And in Seattle, we had one of the very first interpreting programs and after high school, I went through that.

00:04:55 Marty

I was a huge part of the deaf community in Seattle and that's where I began interpreting for real.

00:05:04 Tim

So, you, you never had a different career or, or work before being an interpreter?

00:05:10 Marty

Ohh sure I did. I worked at something like McDonald's.

00:05:16 Marty

[chuckles] But I was a lousy worker, really bad. So, I didn't last in that job very long. [Tim chuckles: yeah] And I also was a phone solicitor. I gave away free dance lessons.

00:05:31 Tim

O…K.

00:05:33 Marty

…for Town and Country Dance club. That's where I learned how to speak on the phone.

00:05:38 Tim

Those are good skills, yeah.

00:05:40 Marty

They, they apply. The one that was like McDonald's, I don't know how much that one applied, but definitely the phone soliciting…and your tone and smiling while you're talking. Very important. [Tim lightly chuckling: yeah]

00:05:55 Tim

This girl that you met on the bus, was she the one that kind of gave you the fire to go ahead and learn American Sign Language? Or did you find this later?

00:06:06 Marty

No, it all flowed from Mona to one night a week sign language classes, to the opportunity to attend college that had an interpreting program [Tim: mhmm] taught by wonderful deaf people, and interpreters. [Tim: mhmm]

00:06:25 Marty

So, it was a happenstance, [Tim: mhmm] really, of what it was like back then because nobody knew what a quote professional interpreter was. [Tim: mhmm]

00:06:41 Marty

It was the very, very beginning and the reason the interpreting program began there was because of US funding for…

00:06:53 Marty

They needed interpreters for college students. [Tim: mhmm]

00:06:58 Marty

They passed this law that college deaf students could go to college and university. But in that law that… there… they never thought about interpreters. [Tim chuckling]

00:07:11 Marty

So, all of a sudden…

00:07:14 Marty

You, you have deaf students that you're trying to teach and then nobody to work in the classrooms. [Tim sarcastically: huh, hmm, yeah]

00:07:23 Marty

Yeah. So that you know kind of how it began way back when, when we weren't CODAs, children of deaf adults. [Tim: mhmm]

00:07:35 Marty

Most of the interpreters, quote UN quote, were CODAs, and I was maybe one of the first groups that went through that wasn't a CODA. [Tim: mhmm]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:07:49 Tim

So, what was it like then? Was it a, a full degree at that time?

00:07:54 Marty

It was a two-year degree. [Tim: mhmm]

00:07:57 Marty

So, diplomas, you know, in some areas of the world, but it was an Associate of Arts degree, [Tim: mhmm] and we had a deaf teacher, Archie Shields, who had these arthritic hands. And he would give us 100-word finger spelling tests.

00:08:19 Marty

And he would sign number one, and then his poor little fingers would go [makes fast mouth noises]. [Tim laughing] And then you would write it down. And #2 [makes fast mouth noises]. So, that's how I learned how to read finger spelling, which was really good practice. [Tim: wow]

00:08:35 Marty

And then we had just fabulous interpreters who were teaching as well. [Tim: yeah] Theresa Smith was one of them. She's from Seattle, and she was very involved in the deaf community and…

00:08:52 Marty

Of course, Archie was because he was deaf and that's how it all began. [Tim: mhmm]

00:08:58 Marty

And then I volunteered for things. One of them was interpreting for television. [Tim: ooo] And there was this this couple back in the day when there is no closed captions. [Tim: mhmm]

00:09:10 Marty

There was this couple that had…

00:09:12 Marty

I would say at least 8 televisions. [Tim: Wow] Four on the bottom, four on the top. There could have been 10 and some of them were for the husband [Tim softly laughs] and he would watch sports. And he wanted to know what they were saying about some of the players and the other four were soap operas. [Tim: oh] And they were different soap operas for the wife. [Tim: uh huh] So, I would interpret or sign depending on how skilled I was for the husband and for the wife, and they would argue who gets more of my time. [Tim laughs]

00:09:52 Marty

So those are back in the olden days.

00:09:54 Tim

Wow. So you were standing in front of the televisions?

00:09:58 Marty

Ohh yes, I'd move from his side to the side of the televisions and he would, you know, watch me and he would ask me…

00:10:08 Marty

I mean, he would have all four televisions with volume. [Tim: wow] And I had to explain to him, “no, I can just listen to one at a time. So, we have to turn them all off, including the soap operas of your wife, you know, choose which one you want to listen to, and I will interpret it. And then we have to turn that, that off and then go to the next one.” And yeah, he was fascinated with players and maybe two were covering baseball, and one was covering golf, and one was covering football.

00:10:40 Marty

And so, I learned a lot of sports signs. [Tim laughing] And then I’d go over to the wife’s side and interpret the various soap operas.

00:10:49 Tim

Which taught you a lot about life, of course, yeah.

00:10:52 Marty

Of course, it really did.

00:10:55 Marty

Life is all about “oh, oh, I love you”. “Oh, I hate you.” [Tim chuckling] “Ohh. You're in the hospital. For how long?” Ohh yes, it, it really helped, and I would encourage anybody who's studying sign language or studying interpreting if you want to work on emotions…

00:11:15 Marty

Soap operas.

00:11:17 Tim

How long did you do that for, I mean over a period of time?

00:11:21 Marty

Yes, two years.

00:11:23 Tim

Just once a week, I guess.

00:11:25 Marty

Oh no. Full time in the states, it's like 15 hours a week are courses. Because I was young and living at home, I didn't need to make money or anything, so I did all the volunteering at… [Tim: mhmm]

00:11:41 Marty

…just different things. The teachers… Archie, for example would say, you know, “OK, we need an interpreter. This person wants to go buy a hat. Could you go with her?”

00:11:54 Marty

“Sure, to go buy a hat. Sure, I can do that. I don't have another job.” [Tim laughing]

00:12:02 Tim

A little different than today.

00:12:03 Marty

Very different! Things have changed tremendously.

00:12:07 Tim

Sounds like a lot of fun.

00:12:09 Marty

It was, it was. And, and very casual, informal. [Tim chuckling] The deaf couple with all the televisions, you know, they would have chips and dip it felt like the Super Bowl or something, chips and dips and, and drinks. And, and, then they would say, “OK, my eyes are sore, so let's just sit down and talk. Let's sign with each other” and, and then I would learn more, maybe not understand their conversation, especially when they were talking with each other. [Tim: mhmm]

00:12:40 Marty

But I picked up quickly because you got to know what's being said.

00:12:45 Tim

Mm-hmm. So how did you move from there to professional interpreter, as a paid interpreter, I should say.

00:12:52 Marty

Paid interpreter. From Seattle I went to Oregon and did my internship there at a university [Tim: mhmm] and I interpreted for people who were studying to be teachers of the deaf [Tim: mhmm] and the students were deaf.

00:13:11 Marty

And so, I interpreted in a Master’s degree program for my internship and… [Tim: mhmm]

00:13:18 Marty

I can't remember. Oh, yes, I do. Yes. One of my teachers was Sharon Neumann Solow, [Tim: mhmm] who came up to Seattle from California. She came up to Seattle to finish her master’s degree, which resulted in her book. [Tim: yeah] That book is called Sign Language… Introduction to Sign Language. [note: Sign Language Interpreting: A Basic Resource Book] One of the first books ever published was hers. And so, she was finishing her master’s degree and she was teaching in the interpreting program. [Tim: wow]

00:13:54 Marty

So, when she went back to California, she told me how good California was, California State University, Northridge, CSUN. And so I went down there for a summer [Tim: mhmm] and then I got offered a job.

00:14:12 Marty

And then Sharon Solow and her husband offered a room at their house for me to live in so that I could afford to stay. [Tim: mmm] And then I stayed there for seven years, getting a degree and at the same time interpreting for the university.

00:14:28 Marty

And the university had about 200 deaf people attending university. [Tim: oh] So…

00:14:37 Marty

It was a great gig I could interpret for classes. Decide. “Oh, that's a class I want to take.” Or the reverse. [Tim laughing] “Ohh no, I am taking this professor.” So, it was great, and I really enjoyed interpreting and post-secondary.

00:14:57 Marty

And then in Los Angeles, I would do freelance work as well. And after a number of years, I started teaching, teaching sign language, which I can't believe I really ever did because I'm hearing and I'm not native. [Tim: yeah] But that was kind of the progression [Tim: mhmm] be an interpreter, be a teacher of sign language, and then eventually I became an instructor in interpreting programs. [Tim: mhmm]

00:15:26 Marty

But L.A. is so huge.

00:15:30 Marty

I had part time jobs far apart, [Tim: hmm] so I'd drive an hour and a half for one job, teach three hours, go to another job… The best one, the BEST one was a 12 to 1 job in the afternoon, Santa Monica beach. [Tim: wow]

00:15:51 Marty

So, I was young, 21 years old, so I'd go teach. I'd all, I'd be all professional with my high heels. [Tim chuckling] And then after I taught…

00:16:01 Marty

Changed into my bathing suit, went out to the beach, soaked up the sun for an hour and then move on for the rest of my day. But that was a very nice opportunity. [both chuckle]

00:16:14 Tim

I, I would say so. Wow. Then how did all of this take you to Canada?

00:16:23 Marty

I was doing all of those part time jobs, teaching, interpreting teaching sign language, and I was looking for a full-time job which was not going to happen in Los Angeles because...

00:16:39 Marty

Interpreting programs at that time and still some to this day are one-person shows [Tim: hmm] with part-time people. So, you might have a, a main professor and then you have sessionals or part-time teachers.

00:16:59 Marty

Uh, none of those full-time educators were going to be leaving their jobs anytime soon, [Tim: mhmm] so I wanted a full-time job. I met some people at a conference who said, “hey, there's a job up in Edmonton, Alberta.”

00:17:20 Marty

I had to look at a map. [Tim laughing] Being American, we're not good with geography and where in the heck is Edmonton AB?

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:17:33 Tim

Thank you to everyone who supports this podcast. Check out the links in the show notes to buy me a coffee. That's right, buy me a coffee because everyone needs a little high blood pressure. (no wait... That's… no…*coughs*) Thank you. Now let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:17:49 Tim

There's something I've always wanted to ask, and I think this is a perfect time for it. I don't know why I've never asked it, but I've always in the back of my mind questioned this. There are many countries where English is spoken as a native language, but most of these countries have different signed languages.

00:18:06 Tim

So how did it happen that the US and Canada both use American Sign Language?

00:18:13 Marty

That's a great question.

00:18:15 Marty

I don't know the answer to it, but I can tell you that because Canada is a bilingual country, French and English. [Tim: mhmm] We do have two distinct sign languages, American Sign Language and French (LSQ) Sign language and that's totally different.

00:18:41 Tim

Sure. Is it the same as what France has or is it different?

00:18:45 Marty

It's, uh, it's different. It's Quebecois from Quebec [Tim: mhmm] and but I believe from my understanding, people from Quebec or people who use LSQ…

00:19:00 Marty

They can understand people from France in sign language. [Tim: mhmm]

00:19:06 Marty

So, it's, it's pretty close [Tim: yeah] and American Sign Language, Canada and the United States, I would say also is pretty close. [Tim: mhmm]

00:19:16 Marty

We definitely have vast differences, especially among different communities, the black community, the Asian community, Hmong [Tim: mhmm] community, everybody. And, and in Canada, a tidbit of information, Canada has…

00:19:39 Marty

(I have to think.)

00:19:41 Marty

…four and a half, five and a half time zones. [Tim: mhmm]

00:19:46 Marty

So, we have the Pacific Time Zone, Mountain, Central, Eastern, and then we have the Maritimes, which is an hour again. So, we have five, hour differences and then Newfoundland, which is another province is half an hour later [Tim: hmm] just half an hour. It messes everybody up. [Tim laughs] And Newfoundland is an island and it really is like, uh, almost a different sign language. It's called the, the Maritimes Sign Language.

00:20:25 Tim

Do you know what the population of signed language users in Canada is?

00:20:31 Marty

In Canada, we have about 33 million people. [Tim: mhmm]

00:20:37 Marty

And we often say that depending on what statistics you're looking at, we could be as high as 10%. I think that's a bit high. So, then you look at 1%. So that would be 3 million. [Tim: mhmm] Everybody wonders about that and it's very difficult to define.

00:20:57 Tim

As it is in most countries, I think. And how many interpreters approximately work in Canada?

00:21:03 Marty

Another good question.

00:21:05 Marty

I would say, guessing, I would say more than a thousand.

00:21:11 Marty

We’re short on interpreters. We could use more interpreters. We could use better interpreters. We could use more specialized interpreters. [Tim: mhmm]

00:21:22 Marty

It's that matching game of we have very specialized deaf individuals who are teaching at the university who are studying sciences, who are getting their PhD's in their fields, [Tim: mhmm] and then we have interpreters…

00:21:42 Marty

Who are trying to get up to those levels of specialization. They don't always fit, and so interpreters try to do their best, but we need more specialized interpreters. [Tim: mhmm]

00:21:57 Tim

It seems like it's always the demand for interpreters is high in every country, and as that demand grows, the specialists are needed. It just keeps going higher and higher.

00:22:09 Tim

And it's a good thing, I guess, as a profession.

00:22:11 Marty

It is. It, it moves everybody along and provides opportunities for deaf individuals.

00:22:19 Marty

It provides opportunities for interpreters, and it provides opportunities for the public. [Tim: mhmm] I've noticed in many television stations across the world you have interpreters now in the little box or half the screen, especially during COVID. [Tim: yes] And in Canada, most of those interpreters are deaf. [Tim: mhmm]

00:22:43 Marty

And it really has provided another job opportunity for deaf people, which has been marvelous and very good for the community who are watching television, who don't need me to stand next to the soap opera [Tim laughing] or the sports games. They can just watch the interpreter on the screen. “We've come a long way, baby.”

00:23:07 Tim

[chuckling] Exactly. We just don't get as many snacks, yeah.

00:23:10 Marty

No, we don't. [bursts out laughing]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:23:19 Tim

As the bar keeps being raised. Have you seen a change in Canada or the US, even where the education of interpreters has been raised to meet those demands? Or do you see a change coming?

00:23:35 Marty

It is slow moving. [Tim: hmm]

00:23:39 Marty

The interpreting field has been evolving much quicker than the educational level provided in Canada. [Tim: mhmm] We have one bachelor's degree program, four-year degree program.

00:23:55 Marty

That's it.

00:23:56 Marty

[Tim: Wow, hmm] Yes. And the others are two years and a couple of them are suspended at the moment. Lack of interest, lack of numbers of people who are taking sign language. [Tim: hmm] And then that goes back to where are the deaf teachers coming from? [Tim: mhmm]

00:24:19 Marty

And the deaf teachers… In Canada and the United States, mainstreaming has taken off. So, one deaf child in a school or three deaf children in a school. And so, when they finish high school, they are not competent signers. [Tim: mhmm]

00:24:39 Marty

Many times and, and sometimes, of course, they're, they are. [Tim: mhmm] They're very good. But because they've gone through school with an interpreter, it's… It's just the interpreter is not a language model. [Tim: right] They are.

00:24:56 Tim

[chuckles] They are, but in a different way, yes.

00:24:58 Marty

But in a different way. And, and we're not communicating directly with the children so. [Tim: mhmm]

00:25:06 Marty

It's like this weird thing when you think about a deaf seven-year-old watching an interpreter in a classroom that's full of interaction and activities. [Tim: mhmm]

00:25:16 Marty

What in the heck are they learning from the interpreter? And…

00:25:19 Tim

And it's interesting because communication is, in a language, is different from interpretation between languages, [Marty: Yes] or can be, I should say, because there are different things to consider for an interpretation, rather than in a conversation. [Marty: Exactly]

00:25:34 Tim

And that does not make a language model. [Marty: Exactly]

00:25:37 Tim

And so those are things we need to consider for interpreters in mainstream schools if that's going to continue, which it looks like it will for a while at least.

00:25:46 Marty

Yes, it's very unfortunate. We have started some- I think it's interesting. I don't know if it's happening elsewhere, but in the Maritimes… [Tim: mhmm]

00:25:58 Marty

The Maritime provinces of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland, so they're four provinces, they have started, I'd say in the last two or three years, they have started employing deaf people to be language models in the classroom.

00:26:23 Marty

Sometimes they interpret, sometimes they tutor, but they are, their primary role is a language model and I think with that context [Tim: mhmm] deaf kids have a real chance to develop their sign language skills and therefore fill the gaps that we have for adults of being teachers of sign language, [Tim: mhmm] being people who can evaluate sign language, evaluate interpreters…

00:26:54 Marty

Who can we get to be on our evaluation panel for our national certification?

00:26:59 Marty

We have few.

00:27:01 Marty

And that's enough for now. But in the future, who are they going to be? [Tim: mhmm] They need to be people who can talk about interpreting and assess interpreting and…[Tim: mhmm]

00:27:14 Tim

I want to clarify that for myself.

00:27:16 Tim

In mainstream schools, they're in the Maritime area. They are hiring deaf adults to work in the mainstream school as the language model. Is, is that correct?

00:27:27 Marty

Yes, it is. The deaf person's primary role is language development for the deaf child in school.

00:27:37 Tim

That's nice.

00:27:38 Marty

If there's more than one deaf child in the school, all the better. But a lot of them are single students in the large school, at whatever age.

00:27:48 Marty

So, this is their solution or a possible solution to deal with mainstreaming, and I think it has great potential. [Tim: mhmm]

00:27:59 Tim

How long has this program been going?

00:28:01 Marty

I think just three or four years, so it's very new and it started off slowly because who's going to apply for this position that's never been in existence? [Tim: mhmm]

00:28:14 Marty

But it is another opportunity also for interpreters. [Tim: exactly]

00:28:18 Marty

Because then you see a language model. You see how the deaf person is communicating with the deaf child. [Tim: mhmm]

00:28:27 Marty

That's exciting. That improves interpreting skills because often it is a one-on-one situation in terms of one deaf child in a large classroom and one interpreter all day, every day.

00:28:42 Marty

Not a very exciting job for interpreters sometimes.

00:28:45 Tim

[chuckles] No, exactly.

00:28:47 Marty

Yeah. See a deaf person in there that changes the atmosphere of the environment and the potential for the deaf child. [Tim: mhmm]

00:28:55 Tim

Yeah, that's nice. Hopefully in four or five years we can see some results and maybe test that to see if it can be applied elsewhere and it also helps the students understand how to use an interpreter to see an example of an adult deaf using an interpreter, and they understand the role of interpreter better as they develop through the years in the school. Definite potential there.

00:29:21 Marty

Yeah, we do have other situations in Canada, and I think we're, we're a bit ahead of the United States in that we do hire deaf interpreters.

00:29:33 Marty

Some... a few…

00:29:35 Marty

…in schools. [Tim: nice] So, especially if they've gone through an interpreting program.

00:29:41 Marty

One of our guys who graduated from the interpreting program who's deaf, he now interprets full time at the Alberta School for the Deaf and that includes in class in Alberta School for the Deaf. Sometimes he's interpreting for hearing teachers. [Tim: mhmm]

00:30:01 Marty

And the, the hearing interpreter is interpreting it because the hearing teacher doesn't sign.

00:30:06 Marty

And then the deaf person will interpret it to the deaf students. So again, a great learning experience for everybody. And way to go deaf interpreter! [Tim: yeah]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:30:26 Tim

From today's episode, we have some lessons to take with us.

00:30:30 Tim

From Marty's stories, we learn that the academic-based education of interpreters has taken us away, slowly, from the deaf community. But it has brought new blood, new struggles with new generations of interpreters. We also see the struggle now that inclusion has put upon the deaf community. Inclusion into mainstream schools doesn't always mean included. It has the possibility of increasing or continuing language deprivation.

00:31:06 Tim

The model that Marty told us about having a deaf adult as a language model seems to have great potential for everyone.

00:31:14 Tim

Some wonderful tips that we can learn from Marty’s journey include watching soap operas. That's right. If you want to improve your language, your emotional language watch and interpret some melodramatic shows about quote, real, unquote, relationships. Jumping from one emotion to another can be hard. Interpreting those, even harder. Soap operas.

00:31:44 Tim

Practice. You can do it. But I think the best lesson that Marty gave us today was how she kept in touch with the deaf community during her academic life. When starting her interpreting career and that was volunteering, learning the language with the deaf community.

00:32:04 Tim

Interpreting situations that are non-critical, working with deaf, who understand where you are in your journey, who can give you those conversations and that needed experience to grow as an interpreter. So, keep calm.

00:32:23 Tim

Keep… going a long way, interpreter baby. I'll see you next week. Take care now.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:33:07]