IW 78: Interview Robyn K Dean Part 4: Be One With Your Expertise

I don't talk much, but when I do... I have an expert opinion!

Robyn shares some insight into her research and how it can spring from the valuable conversations we have with colleagues. We learn more about how workshops are just a step in our ongoing education. And she wraps up with some great advice to save us some common headaches when working with the uninformed.

Listen during the "credits" to hear a little laughter at the end.

Next week...another experienced expert guest.

Transcript

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IW 78: Interview Robyn K Dean Part 4: Be One With Your Expertise

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[ROCK INTRO MUSIC STARTS] 

00:00:02

Good morning, good evening, good afternoon. Wherever you are, this is the Interpreter's Workshop podcast. I'm Tim Curry, your host. Here we talk everything sign language interpreting the ins, the outs, the ups, the downs, the sideways of interpreting. If you're a student, a new interpreter, experienced interpreter, this is the place for you. If you want to know more, go tointerpretersworkshop.com

00:00:28

Let's start talking... interpreting.

[ROCK INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

00:00:34 Tim

And now the quotes of the day, the first by Frank Gehry, Canadian American designer and architect.

00:00:43 Tim

“Your best work is your expression of yourself. Now you may not be the greatest at it, but when you do it, you're the only expert.”

00:00:52 Tim

The second quote is by Franklin D Roosevelt, former American president.

00:00:58 Tim

“There are as many opinions as there are experts.”

00:01:03 Tim

The first quote reminds us that we are and can be good, have the confidence as an expert interpreter. Do it.

00:01:14 Tim

In the second quote reminds us to be humble when we do our expertise.

00:01:22 Tim

In today's episode, it is the last of the interview with Dr Robyn Kay Dean. Today we touch on many things and give some insight into research, how we can get more value from our ongoing education.

00:01:39 Tim

And we expand on some of the ideas from the last episodes.

00:01:44 Tim

Join me in the final episode with Robyn. Let's get started.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:01:53 Tim

I'd like to…

00:01:53 Tim

…expand on what you were talking about with the first bit of research with VRS and also I guess connected to the K through 12 early years of educational interpreting you might say. Did you find out how we could change to allow interpreters to have less stress, or at least to get rid of the cortisol, get rid of the, the stress that is, is affected by the way VRS is handled in the US?

00:02:19 Robyn

Well, there's research out there that suggests how do you reduce cortisol? There's research that shows that something called emotional freedom technique, EFT, which is also tapping you, might have seen people teaching about how you tap on certain points and say certain things that sort of release your body of the stress. And so EFT is shown to reduce cortisol...

00:02:39 Robyn

Again, this is generally speaking. [Tim: mhmm] Fasting. Intermittent fasting is known to reduce cortisol levels, but beyond sort of the general things of which there are, you know, how do we and that's, that's why Karasek’s work...

00:02:51 Robyn

…is so important and I'm pulling out his book, the first book that I, you know, read when Bob forced me [Tim laughing] to look into something other than what I was thinking and his book healthy work. And it was really quite radical because basically what he was saying is…

00:03:08 Robyn

“Yes, you can improve interpreter’s health by increasing their controls, but you can also improve their health by decreasing the demands.” [Tim: mhmm]

00:03:19 Robyn

And that's on the employer. And so, all of the sort of lunchtime brown-bag lectures that you might get at your place of employment about…

00:03:30 Robyn

How to meditate or how to, you know, EFT for example tapping etc. [Tim: mhmm] You know basically putting all the onus on the employee, but what Karasek was saying in the 1970s, which was quite radical was, OK, so employers now what are you going to do on your end of the equation in terms of how do you reduce the demands [Tim: mhmm] and I think…

00:03:49 Robyn

That, that's the only thing.

00:03:51 Robyn

That is…

00:03:52 Robyn

Needs to be called into question. I don't doubt that interpreters [Tim: mhmm] could use some help with, you know yoga or meditation, and I'm sure everybody's giving those things a try. [Tim: mhmm] But at the end of the day, the demands are just too much [Tim: mhmm] and the nature of the demands, one of the one of the things that we found with this research on Caller Behavior…

00:04:12 Robyn

…is that when interpreters reported that this behavior was happening, whatever it was, you know, problematic about it, [Tim: mhmm] bordering perhaps on illegal or abusive, is that they didn't know what happened behind the scenes. They reported it, and many of them said no clue what happened, if anything, and they probably assumed that nothing happened. [Tim: mhmm]

00:04:34 Robyn

And so that's an example of the kinds of things that can change to make an interpreter feel like they have greater controls, right? They can do something about this demand. [Tim: mhmm] Anyway, so, yeah. So, it'll, it'll come down to, to employers reducing the demands of the job.

00:04:55 Robyn

One of the other things that you know going back this topic of exciting and I and I2 years now cooperating with the Terp Academy people and the Terp Academy Summit is that we've offered a pre-conference or graduate student research symposium as a pre-conference to the Terp Academy Summit that happens every year in the summertime.

00:05:15 Robyn

And we've showcased [Tim: mhmm] graduate students and their research instead of just the same people presenting, you know the same like I keep showing up and then, “Oh, it's Robyn Dean again”, right? [Tim chuckles] And it's nice to be able to say and hear somebody else.

00:05:30 Robyn

Right? And to, and to showcase their research. And, and I had a couple of graduate students who helped, who wrote the 2021 publication on this cortisol research, which again, I'm happy to share this article if people are interested.

00:05:46 Robyn

Leslie Knigga and Tiffany Taylor, who looked into why is VRS interpreting more stressful and why is K through 12? And what they found is that and we this has not yet been published, but what they found in their research…

00:06:06 Robyn

I actually, I think we did, we did talk a little bit about it in the article, was under the domain of, for VRS interpreters, under the domain of, of agency like not feeling like they have agency, [Tim: mhmm] not feeling like they can, can… again, as I said affect change, right? do something in response to the job demands.

00:06:26 Robyn

And through K through 12 interpreters, it came down to skill sets and, and feeling like they don't have the skill sets necessary. And that's not only about language skill sets. [Tim: mhmm] That's a little bit broader as well.

00:06:40 Robyn

So long answer to that question. But I think that there's lots from which other researchers can take from the start of our research. So, the cortisol study, we can say there's a problem. Other people can then say I'm a VRS interpreter, I'll tell you what the problem is.

00:07:00 Robyn

Right? [Tim: mhmm] And then they'll research to find out if that's the issue.

00:07:04 Robyn

And that's what you really hope as a researcher that you're not always the one who then takes the next step, but that other people who have more perhaps familiarity with the, the why it might be the why's behind the what. [Tim: mhmm] We're providing the what we want other people to find out, the why's. And so that's the, the hope is that, is that…

00:07:24 Robyn

People will take that research forward in hopes of making changes from the working conditions standpoint.

00:07:31 Tim

It sounds like a good reason to get excited about doing research to see where it goes.

00:07:37 Robyn

Yeah. And to see if the, not that you want to go into research expecting to find what you've hypothesized, [Tim: right] but you know if you spend enough time talking to your peers and your colleagues and you get, you think this is a thing and to see that you get documentation of not only might it be a thing, but here's the, here's the color of it.

00:07:57 Robyn

Here's the nuance of it. Here's the texture of it, [Tim: mhmm] of that thing that you've experienced and, and whether it's working in EUMASLI, which I've done for the last five or six years, well probably more than that, probably 10 years.

00:08:11 Robyn

Or working with my graduate students at the Healthcare interpreting program that I teach on getting them excited about the concept of research, and kind of demystifying it. Right. Like I said, I did research. I went into research, which I defined then as just having a cup of coffee with a friend and complaining. Right? [Tim: mhmm] That's a kind of research. [both chuckle]

00:08:30 Robyn

It's kind of a first step. Am I the only one who thinks this way? You know? [Tim: mhmm] And then it goes from there or should go from there. [Tim: yeah]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:08:42 Tim

OK, let's do word association, which is the wonderful part of the episodes where I give you a word or a phrase, and then you give me whatever comes to mind first. Whether it's a, a word concept, a story, whatever you feel like, and the first comfort food.

00:09:03 Robyn

Pizza. [Tim: pizza] If I could eat more pizza and watch more TV and never write another research article again, I would do that.

00:09:12 Robyn

My brain doesn't allow me to do that.

00:09:13 Robyn

But I would do it.

00:09:14 Tim

Hmm. Yeah, we have to discipline there. What is it? Sustainable discipline? No.

00:09:21 Robyn

No subjectivity. Disciplined subjectivity. Yeah.

00:09:25 Tim

There we go.

00:09:27 Tim

What type of pizza?

00:09:28 Robyn

Oh, I do not have. I'm not a person of, uh, an astute and sophisticated palette. So basically, as long as it's cheese and pepperoni, I'm good.

00:09:40 Tim

OK, next… pet peeve. [Robyn whispers: Pet peeve]

00:09:50 Robyn

I have one of th-… I have really good ears and people who make noises with their mouths usually. [Tim: mhmm]

00:10:02 Robyn

You know, I can't not hear it. And so, when I used to be an interpreter and I'd sit next to somebody who just, you know, [makes mouth noises] and…

00:10:11 Robyn

I know I, and I, when I edit…

00:10:12 Robyn

Video of myself or audio of myself presenting on something I have to hit the silence audio because I even can't handle listening to my own, sort of. Whether it's breath, some people are saying, “Are you afraid that people will find out that you can breathe?” [both laughing]

00:10:30 Robyn

“Or that you have to breathe?” [Tim: mhmm]

00:10:32 Robyn

And it's not that, it's just that I can't handle. I can't handle the sound. [Tim: mhmm] And so, I have, I have… And eh, smells are the same way I have an overly sensitive nose…and ears.

00:10:39 Robyn

Certainly the same thing is true about light ,et cetera. And so, I have a lot of pet peeves around what I can hear and what I can smell. [Tim: mhmm] And it's my, my, my poor nephew who loves to douse himself in cologne. He'll start to come up to hug me [Tim chuckles] and I'll go, “Nope.”

00:10:59 Robyn

“I love you.”

00:11:00 Robyn

“You shower and then I can hug you.” So yeah, my pet peeve are people who don't realize that they're making noises and they're smelling, those are… [both laugh] They think, they think good because it's usually cologne or some other, you know thing that they add to their body.

00:11:13 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

00:11:18 Tim

So smelly, noisy people, OK. [Robyn: mhmm]

00:11:24 Tim

Unless it's a pizza delivery boy, I guess. [Robyn bursts out laughing]

00:11:27 Robyn

And then he gets a pass, a pass.

00:11:28 Tim

Yes. OK, next. Heartbreaking.

00:11:34 Robyn

There's a great quote…

00:11:36 Robyn

That I have in my office that says… [chuckles] it's been so long since I've seen it. I want to get it right, which is why I'm stumbling not because I don't remember what it says, but…

00:11:48 Robyn

“Everybody has a story that would break your heart.”

00:11:51 Robyn

And when I'm trying to access and empathetic response. That doesn't mean I'm seeking to feel empathy. [Tim: mhmm]

00:12:01 Robyn

But if I'm cognitively trying to access an empathetic response to somebody, I try to remember that expression that.

00:12:12 Robyn

“Everybody has is carrying with them a story that if you, you knew it would break your heart.”

00:12:18 Tim

Yeah, it's a good quote for interpreters to remember. [Robyn: mhmm]

00:12:23 Tim

OK, next… organization.

00:12:27 Robyn

Something I wish I were. Well organized, not an organization. I went to a PhD coach when I was in Scotland because I could not figure out how to have, fill... Well, that's not true. I knew how to fill the time, but the name of her business was Peaceful Productivity.

00:12:47 Robyn

And I was basically, chaotic productivity. Organization has never been something that I'm good at and when I try to implement productivity or structure or discipline, I fail miserably. I still produce things, but I do so and in a way that…

00:13:08 Robyn

It usually takes a lot out of me, sort of physically and mentally because… [Tim: mhmm]

00:13:13 Robyn

I just don't have the capacity to work on something in a discrete way and then say, OK, I've done that now and then I'll do something else. I'm one of those. You know, it's not that I procrastinate, it's that because I rely a lot on inspiration. [Tim: mhmm]

00:13:31 Robyn

It's very messy.

00:13:33 Tim

Yeah, OK, good. Well, not good for you, but…

00:13:36 Robyn

Yeah, it sucks, actually. [both laughing]

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:13:45 Tim

Next… culture.

00:13:48 Robyn

A term that is overused. I think that there is so much about the work that we do that people call culture, that if again you had a more precision tool or a precision device, you could break whatever it is. Whatever phenomena you're seeing And you want to talk about…

00:14:08 Robyn

You could break it up in much more helpful ways if you didn't rely on the standby “small C culture.” [Tim: mmm]

00:14:18 Robyn

So, it's almost like a lazy term, in my experience. [Tim: mhmm]

00:14:22 Tim

Can you give us an example?

00:14:26 Robyn

Hmm… Well, usually when interpreters want to reason as to why they took action, they'll call it cultural mediation. [Tim: mhmm] But it's not necessarily about culture that you're mediating. If a deaf person that you end up explicating and describing something to make it clearer or understandable, or link it to their experience or whatever it is that you're doing, [Tim: mhmm] that's not necessarily cultural, that has to do…

00:14:55 Robyn

…with translation theory, quite honestly, it has to do with communication techniques, right? [Tim: mhmm] And so again, cultural mediation is one of those terms. Kind of like “I'm a person first” and “I'm a member of the team” [Tim: mhmm] that interpreters have just become so used to saying. And it's so much more interesting what they're doing and what they're talking about.

00:15:16 Robyn

And they make it less interesting, and sometimes even controversial when they call it what it's not, which is not usually about culture per se.

00:15:26 Tim

Thank you. OK, the last… character.

00:15:31 Robyn

That's just it makes me think of Aristotle and virtue ethics, and to oversimplify the concept, you know, “if you're a good person, you'll do good things”. [Tim: mhmm] And there's also a book that I read. Brooks is his surname on character and having character.

00:15:51 Robyn

I think I'd rather use the term…

00:15:54 Robyn

I think I'd rather talk about, again, going back to sort of my seminary education, I'd rather talk about the human condition [Tim: mhmm] and the human tendency towards anxiety and having an anxious presence than this idea that somehow…

00:16:14 Robyn

We have, we kind of develop a character or an aspect of our character, and then it stays like that. It's static like I have a character, [Tim: mhmm] you know, I think that there's that we will always be grappling with some kind of fear and anxiety. [Tim: mhmm]

00:16:34 Robyn

Which is pretty typical for you know. Again, this idea of the human condition and, and, and I think that that so instead of using that concept of character, which I again I've never really found useful in the ways in which I haven't heard it talked about I'd much rather engage in conversations about how do you learn to be a non-anxious with people. [Tim: mhmm]

00:16:59 Robyn

And so, as an interpreter, and I, again, anxious… I don't mean anxious, right. And I'm using the sign, the ASL sign for for ANXIOUS I don't mean…

00:17:06 Robyn

That restlessness, unsettledness. There's lots of synonyms that are probably better, [Tim: mhmm] but the term that gets used is this idea of non-anxious presence. Again…

00:17:18 Robyn

Working to develop and exude a non-anxious presence both because you have it internally or you worked to develop it internally for a given moment, but also you know how to act out of that non-anxious presence. [Tim: mmm]

00:17:35 Robyn

One of the exercises I, I asked my students to do in the graduate program is to research all the different tests and procedures. While the common tests and procedures, medical tests, and medical procedures that deaf people will and hearing people obviously to experience and to get familiar with them by way of YouTube videos etcetera. Because and if you can even do both on an observation there's no deaf people, but just sort of observe…

00:18:00 Robyn

…you know, one of these tests happening like a Spinal Tap or a epidural being inserted or, you know, all the different things that we so, because my experience is, is that all we have to do is experience something one time [Tim: mhmm] and that familiarity will allow us to not work so hard to have, to exude that non anxious presence because we know exactly what's going to happen. [Tim: mhmm]

00:18:21 Robyn

And even though it might be upsetting or disturbing to witness it, we can usually manage those emotions again, depending on our, our constitution, we can usually manage those emotions that we know are predictable. It's the being surprised.

00:18:36 Robyn

And the unknowing and the on alert [Tim: mhmm] that adds an addition can add an additional layer of anxiety to a deaf individual who is already experiencing their own leveling of anxiety [Tim: mhmm] around the test and procedure. So that's an example of how do you build, to build character? How do you build a resource of that non-anxious presence. [Tim: mhmm]

00:19:00 Tim

You're talking about stabilizing your own constitution, [Robyn: yeah] allowing you to have a little bit more stability there. [Robyn: mhmm, mhmm]

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC STARTS]

00:19:09 Tim

A big thank you to everyone who shares this podcast with a colleague and friend. If you want to support the show even more, check out the show notes for links to buy me a coffee because it's very embarrassing to fall asleep during an interview. Thank you. Let's go back.

[ROCK TRANSITION MUSIC ENDS]

00:19:25 Robyn

One of the things that you asked me was, you know, what is one of the most misunderstood things about Demand Control Schema. I would like to touch on it [Tim: mhmm] because you know it's, it's something I, as I mentioned, the outcome of this blessing and curse that it took off very fast in the beginning, before it was fully conceived of, and formed and written about and all those things and researched etcetera. [Tim: mhmm]

00:19:48 Robyn

One of the, the problems of that is that people who learned it before. You know it was...

00:19:52 Robyn

…at its fullness, if you continue to talk about it in ways that are inaccurate sometimes or just not, you know, missing the mark in some other way. And so that misunderstand. There be lots of misunderstandings, and one of the examples was, you know, oh Robbins theory says there's no such thing as a wrong answer. [Tim laughs]

00:20:12 Robyn

Which obviously is not what we're saying at all.

00:20:14 Robyn

But, but I think it's important for people to understand the difference between when you're learning something. One of the things that you can do is recognize something that you understand. So go, back to elementary school primary school. When you were learning algebra and the teacher would write up the, you know, algebra equation on the board and solve it.

00:20:37 Robyn

And you’d go, “Oh yeah, I get it. I get it.”

00:20:38 Robyn

And you'd get home, and then they'd have an equation, and you'd go, “I can't do it.” Right? [Tim: mhmm] And that's the distinction between recognizing and producing or reproducing. [Tim: mhmm] And so in the learning process lots of people have learned to recognize aspects of Demand Control Schema in that I get it. Right?

00:21:01 Robyn

When you do it right, when you're talking about it… I understand what you mean, [Tim: mhmm] but if somebody were to say to me, can you explain that you can't reproduce it, at least in ways that you think reflects accuracy [Tim: mhmm] or that perhaps objectively does not produce accuracy? And so, I think that that is a…

00:21:20 Robyn

One of the biggest issues that I faced is that helping interpreters and educators recognize it's getting to the reproduction place that is necessary for good application and profound change. If you can get to that level, but most people again don't seek out educational opportunities at that reproduction level.

00:21:47 Tim

And I think that talks to the point of, at least in the USA, those workshops that we're used to having, we go to the workshop, we learn something while we're there, we leave and then two days later you can kind of remember some comments, but most of the main points that should be applying to your work to your practice are gone.

00:22:10 Robyn

Yeah, and that's normal. I mean you, you know, they basically their brain can only really hold and understand in that reproduction sense, a very limited amount and only with repetition. [Tim: mhmm] If there's information without repetition, that's not learning. [Tim: mhmm] And that's why sometimes the phenomenons of you like experiencing something that you thought was fabulous. A lecture you thought was fabulous. “Oh, what was it about?”

00:22:32 Robyn

You're like, “Well… and then, and there was the,…” [Tim: mhmm] You know, and then you basically can't articulate it because you're only at the recognition state.

00:22:40 Robyn

There's something inside of you that is that says, “That's right.” So, you know it on some level on some sort of intuitive level, you know it's right or accurate or reflective or resonating with you, [Tim: mhmm] but then you don't have the ability to reproduce it.

00:22:53 Tim

Yeah, yeah.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

00:22:59 Robyn

The only other thing that I would also like to mention is I think we need to let go of the idea that “hearing people will ever get it, what it is that we do”.

00:23:14 Robyn

And will ever understand deaf people, the deaf community, [Tim: mhmm] signed languages. It's just not going to happen. And I think that there was some unspoken promise to us in our educational experiences and even in the flavor of the day that says if you just educate hearing people enough, if you take those opportunities or [Tim laughing] if the deaf person takes those opportunities to say, “Well, ASL is a language or no, I'm not their family friend, I'm a professional interp-“ all those little things that we say…

00:23:44 Robyn

That we hope will stick. [both chuckle]

00:23:46 Robyn

And then they won't make, you know, quote-unquote the same mistake. [Tim: mhmm]

00:23:50 Robyn

Other professionals, when they know something that other professionals don't, embrace it. And say this is my expertise and the fact that you understand it only adds value to my expertise [Tim: mhmm] and my understanding and what I do know and, and every time you ask me or you say something that we call oh, stupid…

00:24:13 Robyn

Instead of getting annoyed and frustrated, see it as the opportunity for you again. Or if you defer to the deaf…

00:24:20 Robyn

And for that individual or for you to be able to, to, to demonstrate that expertise [Tim: mhmm] and to wallow in how fabulous it is that you know something [Tim: mhmm] that 99.9% of the population does not know. [Tim: mhmm] And so that would be sort of my if…

00:24:37 Robyn

It's such a, it's such a, again, going back to this idea, if we just look through something with a new lens. [Tim: mhmm]

00:24:42 Robyn

If you invite those opportunities, if you hope for those opportunities, [Tim: mhmm] if you wait for those opportunities for a deaf person or for some me for a hearing person to say. Ohh so now are you related or do you also know Braille or all the things that we kvetch about at workshops. Oh, “Can you believe they said that? What a stupid…” [Tim: mhmm]

00:25:00 Robyn

All of that amplification of negativity is only going to work against you, right? [Tim: mhmm] As opposed to all you have to do is switch it around and say I have an expertise that most people don't have. And when I have the opportunity to, umm… demonstrate that expertise for most people, that is…

00:25:20 Robyn

…uh, rewarding. [Tim: mhmm] And if you try to switch that off in your brain often like this idea of watching a television show, I mean, what? You wouldn't watch a television drama where everybody did what it exactly what it is they were supposed to do. And everything went just fine. The reason why we become, you know, intrigued and interested in those television dramas that I was talking about earlier…

00:25:41 Robyn

…is because everything goes wrong. [Tim chuckling] So, if we can see ourselves in the front seat of human drama playing out and use these clever mind sets [Tim: mhmm] to see things differently, I think it would go a long way towards allowing us to enjoy our work and be kinder to people [Tim: yeah] than perhaps is what is sort of the more amplification of negativity that we're we oftentimes get in the habit of doing.

00:26:10 Tim

Yeah. Did you see the other professionals that you worked with? Robert Pollard, the lawyer you mentioned with the other research with VRS?

00:26:18 Robyn

Kate Cerulli. Mhmm.

00:26:19 Tim

Do they sometimes exhibit those little moments of frustration that we have? They exhibit not knowing or understanding what we do? And have you found yourself…?

00:26:32 Robyn

And almost emulating… [Tim: yeah]

00:26:33 Robyn

What I found being in a medical interpreter...

00:26:37 Robyn

In an employed staff position is that I would often meet the providers in the clinic, you know, behind the scenes [Tim: yeah] in the clinic area. And so oftentimes the deaf person would be called, they go back to their room, and I wouldn't engage them until the provider walked in just because of the setup of, of how things went. [Tim: mhmm]

00:26:55 Robyn

And so I would often see providers talking to each other in more of that sort of natural “gallows humor”, [Tim: mhmm] sort of. And if you watch old episodes of ER, you'll say somebody say ohh we've got a bipolar in in in room 2. Of course, all of that is seen as, you know, problematic, because we don't want to refer to human beings by their diagnosis. [Tim: mhmm] But anyway, the whole point is, is that that gallows humor or that, uh, umm,…

00:27:21 Robyn

Rawness is, is notable. But then what, what I do is I follow that same provider in, and he or she is kind, and engaged, and earnest, [Tim: mhmm] and all of those good things. Not that I think that they're pretending or faking it, but they recognize that part of what they do [Tim: mhmm] is part of their their practice and their skill set is to deliver a interested, invested, empathetic approach to their practice. And so they embody that, even if they're frustrated, [Tim: mhmm] even if they think, “oh, I know I can't help this person because they're just not gonna follow through on the medications that I give them anyway.” [Tim: mhmm] You know, even though they expressed that frustration…

00:28:05 Robyn

…perhaps, you know, to themselves or within the confines of their office when they go in their practitioner. They sort of take that on. [Tim: yeah] And I, I think that that resilience or that, umm, maybe that's not the best word in this instance, but being able to distinguish between your intrapersonal demands and being able to say,…

00:28:25 Robyn

“But, I'll deal with those at another time in another way, within a context that is effective and right now, I need to respond to what's happening interpersonally, [Tim: mhmm] not what's going on intrapersonally.” And to see that on display I think was impactful. [Tim: yeah]

00:28:40 Tim

Well, Robyn, it's been enjoyable to talk to you.

00:28:44 Robyn

Well, this has been fun. This has been fun.

00:28:45 Tim

It's been a lot of fun. [Both laughing]

00:28:46 Tim

So, thanks again, Robyn.

00:28:50 Robyn

Yeah, you're very welcome. Thank you. I've enjoyed it.

[SHORT TRANSITION MUSIC]

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC STARTS]

00:28:58 Tim

What a wonderful way to end the interview with Robyn. Let me paraphrase the quote from Robyn’s office to summarize the meaning of today's episode. “We all have a story inside us that is heartbreaking”, and we also have stories that are up-lifting and happy moments. We should respect people knowing that they have such stories within them. Those are living stories that are with us every day, showing through us, or sometimes are hidden, guiding our footsteps. So, let's be respectful and cautious when we're working with others.

00:29:34 Tim

That allows us to improve the working conditions for all of us, discuss with your peers, share with them your thoughts, your ideas, your worries, work together, and it might even bring out some new research to help us all. Remember, when you're going into a workshop, going to a conference, a seminar, or maybe even a group supervision, recognize what you're learning, but put it into practice. Learn how to reproduce what you're learning that will cause us to step up to the next level of understanding, comprehending and fulfilling that title “expert interpreter”.

00:30:13 Tim

Let's leave with this note. The last point Robyn made, let's stop wasting so much energy trying to educate the world about what we do. That's our job. That's why they hire us, because they need an interpreter. If they knew everything about what we do, they wouldn't need us. Hmmm.

00:30:32 Tim

That's why they pay us the big bucks, because we are experts.

00:30:37 Tim

Thanks for listening. Until next time… Keep calm, keep expertly interpreting.

00:30:45 Tim

I'll see you next week. Take care now.

00:30:48 ROCK EXIT MUSIC

[background music swells then lowers as we hear…]

00:30:52 Robyn

Well, just as a reminder, I don't talk all that much. [Tim slightly laughs]

00:30:58 Tim [Robyn chuckling until the end]

[not believing her] Well, [coughs] Yes, that's what I say. And I have a podcast anyway. [Tim chuckles]

00:31:06 Tim

And I'm an interpreter. Yeah, yeah.

[ROCK EXIT MUSIC ENDS AT 00:31:25]